What do Czechs think of Germany?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous (Czech-Related)' started by Retired Dictator, Apr 13, 2005.

  1. amraam_7

    amraam_7 Well-Known Member

    The germans I know are good people. my grandfather was on forced labour in germany, but then, he did business in germany and lived there for some while. personally, I think the atrocities of WWII should not be forgotten, but also they shoud not put barriers between contemporary germans and czechs. if you ask a person , german or czech, I think they will tell you what they experienced whit the others. I really don't think that any (at least moderately intelligent) czech person would refer to a german as a "nazi" (if not mentioning some neo-nazi idiot) and a german would not refer to a czech as untermensch or whatever
     
  2. Karel_lerak

    Karel_lerak Well-Known Member

    I would like to tell you a rather old short story, not far from the topic. As young boys I and my friend were it the „Bundesrepublik Deutschland“, that time Western Germany, in 1967. We learned German, got new friends. One day we visited a family of our new friend. We came and were said, that the uncle of our friend doesn’t want to get into contact with us because „the Czech people are bad“. His own story – during the Prague upraisal in May 1945 he was in Prague as a soldier and was almost killed by Czechs looking for hidden Germans. He did, curiously enough, the same false assumption „all Czechs are bad“ as did the Czechs in 1945 „all Germans are bad“.
     
  3. amraam_7

    amraam_7 Well-Known Member

    yea. those times were wild. my grandafther was helping the resistance in the final days of WWII. he told me a story about running through houses with the resistance fighters, seeking for german soldiers, who were shooting at civilians. he said they even found a german officer's wife shooting from some roof. but those stories are to be remebered, but not used to forge opinions on nations today. they did lots of bad things to us, we did some of that stuff too after the war was over. but it's history. my opinion
     
  4. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    I agree. History should not be forgotten, but old grudges should.
     
  5. evantula

    evantula Active Member

    ... it has most certainly been reported here, in fact, there were some "rings" busted up there and it was reported here! The Czechs have mixed feelings about the Germans not only because of their history, but in this day and age when the "skinheads" are basically running around the Republic spreading their evil doctrines, being destructive with graffiti, muggings, beatings and tortures … I guess some people just don’t access the right media to find out about “stuff” … basically, Ursula, there is no love lost between the two nations … and I agree, they should be put away for a long, long time ... hopefully the porn with children sites will be busted up ... I know that they are trying ...
     
  6. Kanadanka

    Kanadanka Well-Known Member

    well, I read up on Czechia in Canadian papers, and have never read anything about pedophile rings there (which obviously doesn't mean they don't exist).

    As to the second point - there will always be narrow-minded people who judge others by their colour, creed or nationality. I think we can learn from the past, but we can't let the past it give us an excuse for "generic hatred" for a whole nation. I feel sorry for bigots - what a useless waste of mental energy.
     
  7. evantula

    evantula Active Member

    Kanadanka, you simply have to get over yourself and don’t preach, please. “No love lost” does not necessarily mean "hate". What it means is that people are a whole lot more careful and in their minds they look back at the history between the two nations and remember the recent past, such as WWII. They remember how the Czech Republic was simply handed over to the Germans. The Czechs remember very well that England, France, US, etc. sold the Czechs out based on false promises and lies and hoping to save their own assets (so to speak). They do remember that it was the Germans who marched in one day and took their country hostage.

    As a child I toured the mountains with bunkers and underground facilities and I remember thinking even then ... “the Czech's would have won this!” Hitler would have never, ever gotten through the Czech defenses. The Czechs had the best equipment of that time, the best trained military, including their own air force. Instead, there was not a shot fired! They put down their arms and capitulated. Hitler, like Napoleon simply “waltzed” in and took the country over supposedly to make it a protectorate. HOGWASH!

    If you go back into history, and read some of the facts published by historians, you will find out that the Czechs had the best equipped military in the world at that time. Unfortunately, things changed since then. It is not a bad idea to look back into history and remember that history only repeats itself. The Czechs, being in the heart of Europe, were always under some sort of an attack and/or had to be in the middle of some sort of European conflict. Political economics always had a play in their lives they were being “screwed” over and over again.

    So, being cautious with the Germans and not necessarily embracing them has nothing to do with bigotry and racism and all the other ‘stuff” that you pontificate about, Kanadanka. It has to do with “learn from your mistakes and don’t repeat them”. Using the PC (politically correct) speeches may be popular in Canada and here in the US, but where is your passion for life, Kanadanka? Let’s all be nice to each other is a Shangri La-type of thinking. That’s why the Czechs were under the communist thumb all those years… it sounded good! It sounded a whole lot better to those who knew that this was an opportunity for them to get rich off the back of those who trusted them and who believed all that garbage about equality.

    The Czechs were an industrious nation before WWII, a capitalist nation. They had a strong economy and they will be there once again, no doubt about it. What I don’t like is this EU manufactured “beast”. As I said before, history repeats itself and I am only cautiously optimistic for the Czechs. I am afraid that they will, once again, be taken advantage of, as they have in the past. We have this saying here in the States – “like a mushroom” … I say -- let’s not be like a mushroom … don’t stay in the dark and don’t let others feed you “S” (a four letter word). I am not even Czech, although I was born and raised there, but I am passionate about the Czechs, their history, about their love and hunger for learning and knowing. I say, stay focused and on your toes, keep informed, get your information from more than just one or two sources, don’t just listen, but hear the message … and remember … where there is smoke, there is usually fire.

    I guess I’ve said enough on the subject of Czechs and German relationship(s), what do you say, Kanadanka? Truce?
    :D
     
  8. Kanadanka

    Kanadanka Well-Known Member

    I am well aware of Czech history - I grew up in that country
    Why, prey tell, do we not discuss our "lack of love" for the Russians - actually, for all the Warsaw pact countries that invaded our land in 1968.
    My point is, it was the politicians and those in power who created the situations between our countries. The German "little people", the homemakers, shopkeepers, mechanics...they had no more choice and no more desire in fighting others and taking over their lands. It's useless to hold it against them.

    "Kanadanka, you simply have to get over yourself and don’t preach, please"
    Actually, Evantula, I am not preaching, but I am stating my opinion like all others are entitled to doing.
    By the way, I've appreciate it if you didn't make personally critical statements - I have criticized what you've SAID, not your personality. I'd thank you for keeping the same boundaries
     
  9. evantula

    evantula Active Member

    ... OK, Kanadaka, I too am responding to what you wrote/said. I don't know your personality so I don't know how I have criticized your personality ... I completely agree with you that we are all entitled to an opinion ... that's why I felt that I basically had to say "lighten-up" ... this was in response to the biggotry, etc. ... just an opinion. I don't believe my opinion to be more valid or more important than yours is, Kanadanka, truly I don't :D

    On the other hand, I wonder why it bothered you so much that I had an opinion about Brad and whatshername ... it is just an opinion and it wasn't even me who started that string in the midle of the "Czech and German" discussion. I responded to what someone else had said about knedliky and I thought that whatshername could use some ... come on, Kanadanka, that was a funny, you have to admit, especially since she looks sooooo extremely thin up on that scooter, or a bike, I don't know what those machines are ...

    Also, I remember your repremand that the subject was the Czech's and the German's and their relationship ... why on Earth did you bring up the Czechs and the Russians? You have to admit, that is an alltogethr different topic of discussion.

    Ending this nutty discussion, you know the saying that I also like ver much ... when you point your finger at someone, or something, remember that there are four more pointing back at you. Nothing personal about this one, it just popped into my mind just now.

    I would like to say, I don't want to fight with you, but do I love us having these dicsussions and exchanges? You betcha! :lol:
     
  10. Kanadanka

    Kanadanka Well-Known Member

    " OK, Kanadaka, I too am responding to what you wrote/said. I don't know your personality so I don't know how I have criticized your personality ... "

    You said "get over yourself" - that's not addressing what I said, but what I am. Please read your own posts


    "On the other hand, I wonder why it bothered you so much that I had an opinion about Brad and whatshername ... it is just an opinion and it wasn't even me who started that string in the midle of the "Czech and German" discussion. I responded to what someone else had said about knedliky and I thought that whatshername could use some ... come on, Kanadanka, that was a funny, you have to admit, especially since she looks sooooo extremely thin up on that scooter, or a bike, I don't know what those machines are ... "

    Not all people have control over their eating - someone very close to me has battled anorexia for over a decade. Making fun of someone's weight is very inappropriate and hurtful.

    "Also, I remember your repremand that the subject was the Czech's and the German's and their relationship ... why on Earth did you bring up the Czechs and the Russians? You have to admit, that is an alltogethr different topic of discussion."

    Please go back and re-read what I wrote. I simply brought up the idea that here were are bashing Germans, but don't seem to do the same to other "nations" who have also harmed Czechs.

    Like you, I don't like to fight. And I have not enjoyed these exchanges.
    I'd prefer not to continue
     
  11. evantula

    evantula Active Member

    Gosh, Kanadanka ... I feel sorry for you, you have issues, girfriend. I hope that you can get past them.
     
  12. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    What I love about this board that is different from other message boards is that we have great discussions without hostility. When we disagree, we do so professionally and respectfully without personal attacks. Unfortunately, the tone of this particular discussion appeared hostile and did involve some personal attacks.

    I'm know I'm sticking my nose into an "AB conversation" and perhaps I should "C" my way out of it, but I stick my nose into these things for a living so I can't resists.

    I hope that everyone involved in the conversation can look back and their post and think of ways they could have reworded it so it didn't come across so hostile. Then each participant will be able to release any hurt or angry feelings.

    Just my two cents and my way of trying to make peace. I hope the intrusion on my part is somewhat welcomed. :)
     
  13. Kanadanka

    Kanadanka Well-Known Member

    Again? my issue is that I am finding the approach of this person condescending and purposely rude . In my day to day life, I choose not to surround myself with people who behave in a passive-aggressive manner, and find that it makes my life much more peaceful.

    I refuse to be baited any further, so I will not be responding to any further remarks from Evantula. Perhaps letting her have the last word will make her feel like she won
     
  14. evantula

    evantula Active Member

    Point well taken! I am certain that I did not go on an attack with Kanadanka. She chose to indicate that "talking" as it were, about Angelina Jollee (I call her whatshername) and Brad Pitt with was not in synch with the Czech/German theme and ... here we are.

    Regarding the Czech/German topic I included historical facts and personal observations. Kanadanka chose to have an abstract conversation about race and bigotry ... well, including myself, we all need to lighten up a bit and that was the jist of the whole "conversation" ... at least on my part.

    My intent was and is NOT to offend ... these are just opinions and as I mentioned to Kanadanka, they are like belly buttons ... we each have one. This is the way I see it ... if someone needs a constant reassurance that they "are right, and their opinion is great, and yes, let's do the politically correct thing and play nice and get along ... and all that other liberal "stuff", that’s their problem. There is nothing that I can do about someone else’s insecurities. Although I am confident in what I say, I don’t thing that I am always right. Further, if my opinion appears to be a strong one, well, heck make "yours" (not directed specifically at you) even stronger, yet. Perhaps you'll change my mind ... I hope that we can get past this as I know that I have enjoyed your contributions to the discussions. Thanks for dropping a note.
     
  15. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    Look, just knock it off, both of you! This started off as a particularly interesting thread--I'd hate to lock it.
     
  16. fabik317

    fabik317 Well-Known Member

    reaction to the relevant posts (i.e. not Kanadanka's or evantula's (no offence)):

    i think that these days this "old grudge" (as Sova put it) regarding WWII is just plain retarded - i can understand when people 60+ years old feel anxious about the Germans (or Germany per se) because in those cases the war often directly affected those folk's lives in ways fairly hard to forget/forgive but when i hear today's teenagers rambling about how they hate the Germans "because of what they did during the war" i really don't know if i should cry or laugh. there must be something wrong with the teaching of history (or with the education system in general) or else i can't explain it. we could as well sue the russians for hunting the mammoths down to extinction or the french for the atrocities during their revolution. and that handful of WWII war criminals surviving to this day should be left to die in peace, buried in unmarked graves and that's it - living for some 60+ years with such tremendous guilt on their minds must have been enough of a punishment.
    now call me a nazi but i am not, i'm just trying to think realistically
     
  17. Kanadanka

    Kanadanka Well-Known Member

    Well said - and almost exactly my sentiments expressed in my first (and hopefully relevant) post
     
  18. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Yes, it is definitely retarded. The Iron Curtain interrupted the possibilities to solve it. And all the spleens accumulated during the Cold War were vented with the fall of communism. (No wonder, there are minimal disputes with Ossis.)

    I can’t remember meeting such a teenager. :?

    But I met a lot of people worried about German attempts on revision of post-war order or about German attempts to trivialize the German guilts.

    I wonder this thread is focused only on the WWII. There’s a lot of other disputes with Germans.

    I’m much more worried about the present policy of Germany, about the tendencies to coact with Russia regardless the interests of Central European states (and German allies!) for example.
     
  19. doman

    doman Well-Known Member

    There is a thing always happend and always be realistically.
    Vietnamese idiom "The Buffalos were fighting each other, the flies and mosquitoes were dead."
    Influences always wanted to make their influential be stronger and showed it to their competitors. But the worst consequence will be stood by smaller parts.
    Wishing it was just a game, but it wasn't a game. A lot of people must pay for it by their blood and lives included those who had thoughts "I am out of it."
    Willing or not willing, we have to live in the same Earth.
    Any real Peace for the future ?
     
  20. BMoody

    BMoody Well-Known Member

    One dispute I hear about between Czechs and Germans is a reoccuring push by German politicians to put German names for Czech towns up on road signs. It seems to me that the Czechs want to resist it because it makes them remember the German push for unification with Sudeten, Alsace Lorraine, and Polish Germans.

    Just how the Pakistanis and Indians flood people into Kashmir to influence any plebicite there, I think Germany's want to expand even conveniences for its people seems like aggression all over again. Hitler didn't seem so bad at first and yet he ever so slowly began the annexations and conquest. I think Czechs have suspicion of the Germans (and Russians for that matter) breed into their culture.

    The lesson is to keep an ever watchful eye on those greedy Germans and expansionist Russians. And why not??? After WW I, "The Great War" or ironically termed "The War to End All Wars," the whole world was in a peacenik hysteria!! The governments often knew better and many reformed under fascists, but the fact is even after so much death and lessons the world still turned deadly.

    The want for peace blinded. So now, the Czechs are wary, and rightly so. Who could blame them for the sake of internationlism or pan Europa sentiment??? If ever a sincere victim of appeasement and being nonjudgemental, a free Czechoslovakia was it!

    *For naysayers that say the world is less volitile then before and so that Czechs should warm to former occupiers, I would point to the new U.S. and Russian missile defense politics. It is so very similar to the Cold War, and throws a wrench in thoughts of post communist harmony. The Czechs should stay as they are, civil, but not forget the treachery abound in the last century.
     

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