I think that in the quest for deep and meaningful semantics we have lost the idea of the original thread. Do Czech girls like to date foreign guys? Yes. I'm not a Czech girl but i'm damn sure they do. Just look around you in a bar. Girls flock to foreign guys because they're different. Don't ask me why, its just the truth. As that czech girl said 'most of my girlfriends "just" date Czech guys' (or something like that). Perhaps its because girls want what they can't have, thats why playing hard to get works so well. I have noted this strange phenomenon in many female specimens regarding many facets of life. For example, if a girl has straight hair they want curly, and vice versa. Anyway, foreign people are hot. I love indian and arab girls so why can't it be the other way around? Obviously the language barrier is a problem, but I guess the the language of love/coitus is universal. In defence of the Czech girls, I have heard that they are very down to earth and are more concerned about long term relationships pertaining to a family than just having a sexual fling. Again I don't know the truth behind this but perhaps it should be taken into account.
No, I meant that shopping into a bag and then emptying the bag at the cash register to pay is a common practice in the C.R. (or at least was in the towns I lived in). More often than not, the people I saw doing this were old babicky, so perhaps this is an older, going-out-of-style practice. :?:
Mike, thanks for focussing the conversation again. From the discussion so far, the general opinion seems to be as follows: The language/cultural barrier is more significant than the race of the person while dating them. Also, individual preferences are more influencial on the desicion of inter-racial dating, than all other aspects of identity like skin color, religion, etc. The points are well taken, but are a little bit too general. Let me see if the following example helps to focus on what I am trying get at: It is not surprising at all for if you hear a young white American woman to answer the question " Will you ever marry a black man ?", with a simple "No." The interesting thing here, is that just the skin color was enough information for her to base her desicion upon. And, she is not a racist, or at least not considered one by prevailing norms, but it is merely a matter of preference - much like saying, I will not marry a short man, or I will marry a man blue eyes, or who is rich or whatever. Ofcourse, I am in no way suggesting that all white american women have this preference, or even that most of them.. but you can certainly find a sizable number of them who do - yes, just like you can find a sizable amount of them who want tall guys. So, perhaps my questions are about the prevailing cultural norms in the CR: :arrow: how much role would the question, "what would people think if I am with a black man/woman" ( or "indian" , or "filipono" , whatever) play in your plans of going ahead on a date with a person of a different race? And does it depend on the race? (soemthing like asian ok, but black not ok, etc.) as well ? :arrow: if you are Czech, do you think your answers will change depending on if you are living in CR or outside (e.g., do you think you would fell more comfortable dating a black man/woman when you are on a 6 month visit to say the U.S., than if you meet a black man/woman living in CR) I use 'date', because once you are in a meaninigful relationship, I guess you are probably over each others skin color. Keep the insights rolling, and those who are againist inter-racial dating, where are you - the world cannot be full of flower-children! :wink:
OK, so you want a Czech to answer your questions. Let's get personal: When I was 17, I fell head over heels for a gorgeous and utterly exotic Ethiopian student. Even at that tender age, when hormones rule over logic, I noticed after a couple of dates that we had nothing in common. Shortly after I had a short relationship with a Moroccan fellow who, I found, thought that men were put on Earth to rule over women. No thanks. So as to dating: apparently yes, meaningful relationship: no and marriage: absolute folly. To answer your original question I have nothing against dating a person of different race but my personal experience tells me that it's a waste of time. Eva
Eva2, Thanks for sharing your personal experience. Yes, you have an excellant point about the high probability of not having much in common with someone from a different culture. If you dont mind me asking, was it a big deal for your family and friends that you were dating a moroccan or an ethiopian ?
yeah. I have a little personal story of my own to share with you. As far as backgrounds are concerned, I am half-Czech. This is because my dad is Czech and my mum is English. They been married for I think 26 years now. I guess mum has no problems with that arrangement so far.
To Mike: I'm happy for your parents but in this context your remark is irrelevant. We are not talking about beer versus whisky or rohliky versus sliced bread. This is about basic attitudes toward sex and marriage. My Ethiopian boyfriend's father had three wives, nearly twenty sons and an unspecified number of daughters. I wonder how your mother would fit in that environment. Would love conquer such odds? In fact, non-Western men tend to project liberal image when abroad but at home they conform to whatever code is acceptable in their society. Just recently, an Indian friend said to me that women were highly-prized in his homeland. I wish that were true but according to statistics there are two million girls missing in India due to selective abortions. To Speed: I appreciate your private message but I prefer to keep this debate in the open. You will find that Western attitude toward inter-racial dating is much the same whether in the Czech Republic or in France, England, Sweden or the United States. Some like it, some don't. Done casually, it may be fun. I'm just concerned about the long-term issues. Eva
Eva, I completely understand the concerns you expressed. However, I'm inclined to think that your concern is more related to cultural rather than racial issues. The race issue (correct me if I'm wrong, Speed) is the focus of the question originally posed here. I'm curious, if we factor out the cultural differences, leaving only the racial difference, would this seem a viable relationship for you (or any other Czech who cares to respond to this)? Say for instance, your Ethopian hunk had been raised in Europe (perhaps even the C.R.) in a westernized family. How would this affect your perspective on having a long-term relationship with him or even marrying him? This is more the perspective of the average American when considering the issue of interracial relationships.
Sova, I agree with you on this. Eva, do not be so hasty as to disregard my story as irrelevant. Lets remember that the topic of this debate is "Attitudes of young Czechs towards inter-racial dating." For a start, you are referring to culture not race. I have an indian friend at work who has assimilated our culture quite well (NZ) and he is in a relationship with a kiwi girl thats been going on for over a year now. To me this shows that inter-racial relationships can work. There is another indian guy at work who moved over to NZ a lot later and is very ethnic (culturally). He is far more marginalized than my other friend because he doesn't accept our culture and prefers to stay with his own. Your stories about the lying nature of foreigners abroad is emotionally charged and irrational. Okay so yes perhaps some indians will get rid of their daughters in favour of males, however not all will be like this. According to my Indian friend the cow is considered sacred in India, but me and him chow down on McDonalds all the time. Okay so we've established that inter-racial can work so long as the culture is similar. But what about different cultures? As you've stated, your boyfriends father had a harem and a host of children. However, you also say (about foreigners abroad) that "at home they conform to whatever code is acceptable in their society." What if they fall in love and make a Western country their new home? Surely they would adopt the culture of their loved one. The problem is that race is very different to culture. Cultural barriers can create problems, such as those outlined with your 'lets get personal' examples. However, in the case of my parents, my father adopted the western culture. Perhaps this proves that a relationship is possible if the cultures are homogenous enough or if one is willing to change. Who knows, with the globalization of culture we may see an increasing number of inter-cultural relationships. - Mike
Mike, who was your father before he adopted Western culture? Was he a Haitian woodoo worshipper? A Japanese samurai? For a Czech of your father's generation adopting Western culture meant nothing more than switching from socialism to capitalism. How does that rate as an interracial marriage? Furthermore, I never pronounced the word lying in what I said about non-Western men. Mostly they actually believe that they have liberal views. And I agree with you that those who adopted Western ways find friends and mates in Western society. I believe in extending cultural horizons as much as you do. The other end of the stick is that more often than not, adopting one culture means cutting one-self from another - not necessarily by force but by choice. Ask your father how he feels when he visits family and friends who remained behind. I think he'll tell you that he feels somewhat disconnected. After living for years in Canada I know I do. Maybe I was wrong by focusing on cultural rather than racial differences. In my mind they go hand in hand. And yes, had my hunk of an Ethiopian been raised in a Czech family and had he had a sense of humor I think we could have had a meaningful relationship. Whether it would lead to marriage I cannot say.
There's more to culture/race than its political economy. I feel that our debate has degenerated into -our- debate in that no-one else is participating. I am finding myself trying to find holes in your arguments as I am sure you are doing with mine. Its actually kind of fun, but not very progressive. Perhaps we should hear other people's perspectives?
Hi Mike and Eva2! I read your posts and I must agree with both of you. I agree with Mike that Czech girls want to date foreigners because they're "hot", they're cool, they're different. I don't think skin color is such a big issue for Czech girls. But I also must agree with Eva2 concerning cultural differences that may go with a different skin color. I think eventually IT IS about culture and not a skin color. I am a Czech guy but let's pretend for a second that I am a UK citizen with a Pakistani descent. My skin color will be probably dark. But if I was born in the UK, I probably accepted majority of social and moral values of the UK (including values how to treat women). And let's say I will go to Prague and I start dating a Czech girl... I don't think there will be many inter-racial or even inter-cultural issues (unless I am orthodox in my believes). But if I am a guy who was born and raised in Pakistan and I go to the CR and I will try to apply my cultural/ women treatment values on my Czech girlfriend. I don't think my Czech girlfriend will be with me very long. I know this is a generalization and I am sure each of you could give an example how I am wrong. I am just trying to say that I don't think that Czechs have issues with skin color. I think we have issued with accepting cultures that are very different from ours (which probably applies for the rest of the world as well).
Mike, you having a Czech father and an English mother may not be a big deal. Walking together hand in hand, they would never attract any attention because when strangers look they just see two white people together. But let's say an African person dating a European, that maybe a bigger deal and may attract stares because people dating someone of a different race might be shocking or strange to others, like they see skin colour as a big deal. There are still a lot of people everywhere who think that one shouldn't date outside one's race, for various reasons. Well Eva2 is open-minded to date some guys of another race/culture but what I think Speed is wondering perhaps is if Czechs generally think interracial dating is wrong, like maybe they can't get past some one's skin colour, would they refuse to date some one just based on skin colour alone? Well being in Canada, I do see a lot of interracial dating and there are hundreds of different ethnicities here, however the vast majority of people do end up dating or marrying someone from their own "racial group"/ethnicity even if they were born and raised here and very "westernized". People usually end up with some who is the most like them in terms of physical looks, life experiences, social class, cultural and moral values, etc. Some of my friends parents have no problem with their son/daughter being friends with a person of another race, but when it comes to dating or marrying them, well then they are adamantly against it. Some people just have a big problem with skin colour.
I agree with prague citizen that it does eventually boil down to culture and not skin color, but one must also remember that it is an individual's physical attributes, including their skin color, that others see first and may be consciously or unconsciously judged to some degree. This isn't news to anybody, but to put a relationship within a social context in which the physical attributes of an individual, or both, is being evaluated by others within their community and larger society, it can affect the two people - they( the couple) are obviously fine with it (diff races), but they are the ones who have to deal with it on a day to day basis... Personally, I have been in relationships with men of different races, and the race factor can add some extra stress if it is not discussed openly...most of the time we would just laugh at others around us if we sensed some sneering or curious looks, but the fact remained that relationships can be affected by race via outside influences...this could be taken as good or bad, for it can help dismantle a relationship or make it stronger....now as far as culture goes, that is not necessarily out in the open at all times for all to see,and this fact may 'protect' that aspect of the relationship from outside social influence...but then again, isn't culture determined by society? Oh well. None of this will deter me from interracial or intercultural relationships, but it is an aspect to be considered nonetheless I guess i am reverberating what others have already said regarding culture vs. race, but I had to put in my two cents worth On a side note, there seems to be a lot of interest, or at least discussion, concerning Czech girls dating foreigners, but what about Czech guys?
I think Leah has hit the nail on the head. The race issue ends up creating more external pressures (from family, friends, society, ...), whereas the culture issue (isolated by itself, without racial difference) creates more internal conflict (between the two people in the relationship). With racial, but no cultural differences, therefore, the issue seems to boil down to the question of how the couple reacts to the external pressures to conform to the intraracial societal norms and expectations.
Hi all! This thread really caught my eye, so i thought i'd add my own experience about the "culture-clash rather than race" issue. My (estranged) boyfriend and I are both Mauritian-Asians, but I was born and raised in the UK while he was raised in Mauritius. All was well for a while, and I thought we wouldn't have many problems as we both have an awareness of each other's culture. However, I began to realise that, although we looked similar, and supposedly shared the same culture, there were serious underlying problems with our relationship. I've been described my those who know me as the 'least Asian' Asian person they've ever encountered, and quite frankly...I am. Everything from my accent to my behaviour, hobbies and values screams "British!", that's just how I am. He, on the other hand, has begun to cling to Mauritian (basically Indian) values. Especially about how to treat women and people who deviate from the social norm. Now, I'm very liberal, and I just can't understand or accept his values. He feels the same way about mine. Unfortunately, we both think we are right. I believe that some forms of "right and wrong" are culturally defined. For example, spending time with a male friend in the UK is ok. But in Mauritius it's really unacceptable unless the two are dating or are engaged. So, yeah sorry to waffle on! My 'boyfriend' and I are both of the same race, but our cultural differences have ruined things for us. Culture can play a major part in relationship strife and unless there is a mutual understanding between a couple (or the will to compromise) there really is no point in having a relationship as it will ultimately fail, or cause strife. Relationships are hard enough without having a culture-clash problem! I personally have no problem with dating a person of a different race; in fact i prefer non-asians, but if a guy's cultural beliefs are very different to mine, I would think seriously about starting a relationship. It causes more problems than you can imagine!
From the thoughts everybody expressed, I gather that it is quite hard for people to talk about inter-racial dating without bringing culture into it. Ofcourse, you must get along at a lot of levels (including cultural) to have a successful relationship and perhaps, in general, may be inter-racial couples have one more issue to worry about than couples of the same race. But, yes I was trying to find out if it was genrally considered unacceptable in contemprory CR society to date people from a different race. An individual does what he/she pleases, but those who break the norm also have to put up with any prejudice they encounter. The following comments are more along the lines of what I was hoping would be discussed: Forget about forgieners, may be, thinking about the following questions might be fruitful : :arrow: Do you think its ok for a white guy/girl to date a Roma guy/girl ? :arrow: How will people treat that couple on a day to day basis ? And to everybody who is sharing information here: thanks.
I'm a German girl, raised and living in Germany, and my boyfriend is Czech, raised and living in the Czech Republic. We don't have a language problem, since we're both fluent in English and have no problems speaking English to each other. Culturally...well, I guess many things aren't that different between Germany and the Czech Republic, but we both love travelling and finding out about other cultures, so we're rather open towards learning about each other's culture. He speaks some German but is learning more, I spoke no Czech but I am learning it. We have no problem whatsoever with each other's different origins (except for the long-distance thing, but that's a completely different topic). Neither do our friends, they're totally okay with it. And my parents love my boyfriend. Now- his parents. They absolutely hate me, especially his mother. I'm in university, studying to become a high-school teacher, I speak several languages (not necessarily very well, but whatever ), I play several instruments...like anyone, I have my faults, but I don't think I can be called a bad catch or anything. We've been together for 2 years next week, yet- we've never even met. Okay, they don't live where my boyfriend lives. But for example, last month, I went to Prague to visit him for his birthday. They wanted to spend the day with him too. But instead of saying "okay, let's all hang out together" (I wouldn't have a problem with that), they just got really angry at him and demanded that he tell me to stay at home. Most of the time, they either ignore my existence, or they bitch to him and tell him to dump me. Now I don't think all Czech parents are like that, not at all. And even my boyfriend's grandmother is much more open towards the idea of me. I'm sure it has something to do with me being German of all nationalities, what with the history, but hello, it's not my fault I was born in Germany, and even my parents were born after WW2. But they're intolerant towards anyone not Czech, basically. And not even ashamed about it. So if they hate me so much, I can't even imagine how horrible they would find a girlfriend from another race. Sorry for my rant, I just wanted to add my 2 cents
Hello...i thought this topic was very interesting. I currently live in the states & have been in an interracial relationship for almost 4 years (i am white, he is black) & we are moving to Prague in April so the thought of how we will be accepted has crossed my mind. When you are with someone for so long you dont think about color anymore (i really didnt before) and when people look at us i will probably wonder what they are looking at. I am assuming that there are not many interracial couples of white and black mix in prague....not a huge surprise if there isnt. I think if we can get past the daily issues and love each other i could really care less how people think....its my life so if it doesnt effect them why should they care or be bothered with it? :lol: :?
