Proč "výhodou je..."?

Discussion in 'Grammar & Pronunciation' started by digitaliz, Feb 20, 2005.

  1. digitaliz

    digitaliz Active Member

    Ahoj!

    Mám další malou otázku pre Vás, o této větě:

    "Hlavní výhodou je minimální spotřeba paliva."

    Proč výhodou? Proč ne výhoda?
    Myslím, že je instrumentál, ale nerozumím proč...

    Děkuji!
     
  2. frany71

    frany71 Member

    Ahoj!

    Myslím, že Ti mohu pomáhat.
    To je opravdu tak, v té větě je "hlvavní výhodou" vyjádřen instrumentálem. Po slovese "být" se může použít instrumentál když následující přísudek vyjadřuje povolání nebo funkci. Například: je členem výboru, je obchodníkem, sport je mým velkým koníčkem, atk.

    Měj se
     
  3. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    In general, instrumental case expresses a transitory quality - je učitelem (now, but he can become a student tomorrow) or a subjective opinion, while nominative denotes a permanent quality or an undisputable fact.
     
  4. patt

    patt New Member

    But anyway, the construction "to be + the instrumental case" (být + 7. pád) sounds a little oldish nowadays. I think you can always use "to be + the nominative case" (být + 1. pád) in spoken Czech. And the sentence could be: "Výhoda je...."
     
  5. szarkafarka

    szarkafarka Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I cannot imagine the following sentences with the nominative case:

    Václav Havel byl presidentem ČR od roku 1993.
    Od září bude učitelem na naší škole.
    Hudba je mu vším.
    Čím chceš být?
    Nechť čímkoli jsem ještě v božím světě,
    čím budu kdy, tím také budu rád.
     
  6. patt

    patt New Member

    Sorry, I cannot imagine the following sentences with the nominative case:

    Václav Havel byl presidentem ČR od roku 1993.
    Od září bude učitelem na naší škole.
    Hudba je mu vším.
    Čím chceš být?
    Nechť čímkoli jsem ještě v božím světě,
    čím budu kdy, tím také budu rád.
    [/quote]

    Why not?
    Václav Havel byl prezident ČR od roku 1993.
    Od září bude učitel v naší škole.
    Hudba je pro něj vše.
    Co chceš být?
    etc.
    I know that some of them are really colloquial but well, it is the problem of the Czech diglossia. We have a book language, but we speak a colloquial one - and more and more often the colloquial one can be heard on TV, radio etc. Bye, Pavel.
     
  7. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    Just a remark -
    "Od září bude učitelem na naší škole" x "Od září bude učitel na naší škole" are sentences of a completely different meaning...

    In my opinion, replacing the instrumental case by the nominative generally and insensitively is a barbarism and an offense to the Czech language.
     
  8. uuspoiss

    uuspoiss Well-Known Member

    Just trying to understand... Could the respective translations be "He is going to be a teacher (work as a teacher) in our school starting September" and "Starting September there's going to be a teacher in our school"? But why "na" and not "ve"?
     
  9. digitaliz

    digitaliz Active Member

    Thanks for all the answers :), in particular I find the examples useful.

    I've used my favourite linguistic tool, Google ;), to check which is most common. 787 hits for "hlavní výhoda je" and 4530 for "hlavní výhodou je", so I think I'll have to learn this rule as well.... :?

    In school I remember us students being warned about choosing German instead of French as a third language, because the grammar is so complex... can you belive that!? :lol:

    (I went for German anyway, I'm not deterred by a thick grammar book.)
     
  10. Halef

    Halef Well-Known Member

    The second one is a bit odd in Czech, I would probably understand it as "The teacher will be in our school..."...

    Anyway, to your question: "Na škole" is used when you talk about the institution, "ve škole" when you mean the building. So "Ve škole bude učitel" only means "There will be a teacher in the school building".
     
  11. Halef

    Halef Well-Known Member

    Do you know Googlefight?
     
  12. uuspoiss

    uuspoiss Well-Known Member

    Sorry to get off topic, but this thing is clearly prejudiced! Under the classics it offers "mac donalds" vs "burger king" and burger king wins big time, but if you change "mac donalds" to "mcdonalds" as it should be, the tables are turned by some 760,000 hits :)

    Halef, thanks for your explanation in the previous post.
     
  13. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    Ad: "Od září bude učitelem na naší škole."
    Na škole means he is appointed to be a teacher at the given school, ve škole means he is in the school building right now.
     
  14. digitaliz

    digitaliz Active Member

    That's really cool! Thanks Halef! :)
     
  15. Winter

    Winter Member

    Googlefight is just like LIFE !! Unpredictable, random, flip-of-the-coin, full of chances !! You can make one little change and the outcome is totally different !!!

    As seen here, you can make one little change to a word in a sentence, or change its case (nominative, instrumental for example) and the meaning/feeling of the sentence changes .....nuances!

    For example:

    Whom did you see? ......literary, snobbish, educated.

    Who did you see? ......everyday, colloq. language.
     

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