Bush and U.S. Foreign Policy

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by usak, Apr 1, 2005.

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  1. idemtidem

    idemtidem Well-Known Member

    I just want to say that not only in Europe there is a strong anti-american sentiment. I assume that by that you mean anyone who's against George Bush' policies. I don't believe it is right to say that somebody is anti-american for that reason. By that definition then, there is the very same strong sentiment within the US.

    As for the war in Iraq. I have never EVER seen a politician do something for an altruistic reason. Sure, maybe it plays a role in his decisions but it's never just that. I would very much like to believe that George Bush wants to save the whole world but that's just not the truth. It's pathetic that this is his goal, while weapons are being sold to countries that are in a war conflict. How does this go with his "morals"? And what personally bugs me is that he's talking about "morality" and gets his information from bible, but does that only when it suits him. I always want to scream: "HELLOOO! IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!!!". Consistency is hardly an issue for him, though he sure does a good job pretending it. :)
  2. ursula

    ursula Well-Known Member

    im reading a book about the bush family right now. its by kitty kelly. im into it about a quarter of the way and so far bush senior comes off pretty good. ive never been crazy about george w, didnt vote for him. as far as the war on iraq, the man lied to us, plain and simple! but then lying to his people is a time honoured tradition in times of incipient war, and not just with america.
  3. czechpoint

    czechpoint Active Member

    Who do you think put Saddam into power in Iraq in the first place??? The same government that trained Osama bin Laden. It wasn't until Saddam stopped towing the American line that the U.S. government had a problem with him.

    Well, if you define democracy as the freedom to rape, pillage and steal resources, then that would be correct.

    Let's put it this way: how would you feel if the Communists undemocratically removed the U.S. president and undemocratically put in place a Communist supported leader against the Americans' wishes and later when the new leader stopped towing the Communist line, the Communists started bombing the U.S. and killing innocent civilians and once they successfully removed that leader, they have a large role to play in who the American citizens will "vote" for as their new "democratically" elected leader?

    It isn't an anti-American sentiment you are feeling, but an anti-Imperialist sentiment and this sentiment exists all over the world. It just so happens that the U.S. is one of the best, if not the best, example of an Imperialist state.
  4. idemtidem

    idemtidem Well-Known Member

    I totally agree with czechpoint.

    The sad part is that the US continues to follow this path. They made the mistake about supporting Saddam, supporting Osama, supporting Afghanistan extremists...I think it's about time they actually learn from it and stop making the same mistakes over and over again.
  5. ursula

    ursula Well-Known Member

    hi item and czechpoint
    lets not forget noriega and the shah. the list goes on and on.
  6. Ioseph

    Ioseph Member

    Yeah, you got the point czechpoint... but I wonder how I would feel being American about all these topics.

    I think that at the end I would be with my country... it's more easy to think clearly when you are outside.
  7. Eva2

    Eva2 Well-Known Member

    To distribute the blame equally:

    The recent problems in the Middle East stem form European colonialism and the 1919 post-war conference where the powers carved the map without considering ethnic interets. On the other hand, the Americans have always supported bad guys if they served their agenda. On the other hand, again, the Europeans are all talk and no action as witnessed in the Balkan conflict. Had it not been for the Americans, the war would be still going on.

    The really bad things about Bush are his religious fundamentalism and his family's involvement with Saudi money. A strange cocktail, indeed.
  8. Bret

    Bret Active Member

    Well, I see I've fallen into a nest of liberals and I will not sway your opinions so I will post my final reply to this string.

    First, the US is not an imperialist nation. History proves that. We do not rule a single country that we have defeated in war. We want out of Iraq as soon as possible and will be as soon as it is re-built and self-sufficient.

    Second, enemies and allies change over time. The US is not the only country to experience this. Just look at history.

    Third, "rape, pillage, and steal resources?" That is a rediculous allegation. The US is not in Iraq for those purposes and you know it. Talk is cheap, proof is harder to come by. I see reports of a successful election. Huge voter turnout. Schools re-opening. Life returning to normal (however bad it is, it is better than before). I know that disappoints many Europeans and Middle Easterners. They want it to fail, more specifically, the US to fail. Fear not though, safety and peace will slowly return to Iraq and you will be forced to accept facts rather than fiction.

    God Bless.
  9. KJP

    KJP Well-Known Member

    I agree Brett, with time they will see. True, we have made our mistakes there, as with all wars...

    Do you have photos of the president of your country holding a rifle? Well, we have footage of Saddam shooting people in the back of the head! The man was a lunatic, a self centered lunatic that poisoned many. His ousting a welcome relief to many. Very few Americans are happy with the situation now, but you cant start a fire and then run away...we due diligence right.

    BTW Brett, you like a bit like Dustin Hoffman:} did you see Meet the Frockers? :}}}
  10. idemtidem

    idemtidem Well-Known Member

    The definition of liberalism: A political theory founded on the natural goodness of humans and the autonomy of the individual and favoring civil and political liberties, government by law with the consent of the governed, and protection from arbitrary authority.

    Why do you have a problem with someone being a liberal? You don't agree with that? You do not favor civil and political liberties?
  11. ursula

    ursula Well-Known Member

    aha bret
    are you a republican like my husband? you sure sound like one.
    i agree the us is not imperialistic per se. rather i think it is well intentioned but does not do its research. look at viet namh and korea. the last popular war was WWII. look at the peiople it supported, from noriega to saddam hussein. they all turned out bad. i wont even mention the cia and fbi.
    well enough said. i dont quote churvhill i know what he sai about older liberals. but you are as entitled to your opimion as i am to mine.
    a liberal and proud of it
  12. Bret

    Bret Active Member

    I don't have a problem with someone being a liberal-I have a problem with the stance many liberals take on issues. I try to separate people from issues. As for your definition of liberalism...great spin. People try to boil things down to a level that is way too simple. Of course I favor autonomy and civil and political liberty. However, there are limits that must be placed on everything, that is where liberals and conservatives clash.
  13. Bret

    Bret Active Member

    That is the great thing about the US...you can have your own opinion, regardless of how wrong it is :wink:

    Take care.
  14. idemtidem

    idemtidem Well-Known Member

    Well, I was just trying to show that you saying "you've fallen into a nest of liberals" and then refusing to discuss anything further (even though you didn't seem to mind before when most people agreed with you) was a little bit silly.

    What I find pretty interesting is that the people in the US who call themselves conservatives are generally against abortion, euthanasia etc. But then those exact same people are not against wars that obviously result in deaths. I guess I just don't see how is that conservative. On one hand, doing their best to protect lives and on the other hand ending lives of people that want to live. I'm not trying to pick an argument, just checking if somebody can explain to me how the two can harmoniously co-exist. To me it seems very hypocritical.

    Does that make me a liberal?
  15. idemtidem

    idemtidem Well-Known Member

    That's the great thing about LOTS of countries :)
  16. ursula

    ursula Well-Known Member

    everybody has made mistakes. look at the germans with the kaiser and hitler. look st the italians with mussolini. back then i think most countries followed their leaders, right or wrong. since the nuernberg trials that has changed to some degree. at least i hope so.
  17. KJP

    KJP Well-Known Member

    U.S. forces attacked Afghanistan and overthrew the Taliban government in late 2001 after it refused to hand over al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden, the mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks

    Yet just today, Afghan President Hamid Karzai said on Wednesday he planned to ask President Bush for long-term security protection for Afghanistan.

    Asked if permanent U.S. bases were planned, Karzai said the Afghan people wanted "a longer-term relationship with the United States" after 30 years of war and upheaval.

    Another example of how things take time to work (namely democracy, ask the Czechs, or were you even around to know the StB)?
  18. ursula

    ursula Well-Known Member

    sorry i dont know what STB) is. plese explain
  19. KJP

    KJP Well-Known Member

    what you know as the KGB...Ursula, are you Czech? I note the VA, for Virginia?
  20. IloveAmerica

    IloveAmerica Active Member

    Hamid Karzai is cool he's my hero because he worked for the American oil company Unocal and now he can get the oil flowing as president. I hope he bought some Unocal stcok, hell I would, its a great conflict of interest position in a country with no legislation barring that activity.
    Hamid is not the leader by accident. Let the oil flow baby. Let it flow baby !
    Hey you liberals out there ! How does it feel ? An oil company man running Iraq ? Its all about supply and demand the oil is there and we need it. Deal with it.
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