Discussion in 'Vocabulary & Translation Help' started by dzurisova, Dec 3, 2009.

  1. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    Souhlasim, taky jsem změnil po příletu názor na tu naši pidi zem

    This is such a difficult one. Word for word, I have..

    I agree, also I changed after I will fly idea on you I patch ? land. :D
  2. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    I agree, after my arrival I also changed my opinion about our mini(ature) country.
  3. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    Ugh, I get so hung up on word order. I need to somehow learn to get over that.

    Thanks Jana :)
  4. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    I know you're not a big fan of grammar theory Jana but this might help you!
    It didn't help me understand the sentence because I didn't know the words.. but it does help me sometimes with simpler things.

    English is a SVO language:
    Sam ate Oranges
    Czech is too, but only every now and then heh.
    So if you use the cases to determine the subject and the object in every sentence you can re-arrange the word order to something that makes sense to you. (of course with 3 word sentances it's always easy to recognize subject and object, even in English it can get quite hard with a long sentence or something with a few clauses.
    My mind kind of does this automatically most of the time because of learning Irish as a child which was VSO
    Ate Sam Oranges
    In Czech as you know the subject and the object can be anywhere (or that's how it seems to us) it's just the cases that tell you which they are.

    I guess the only way to do it naturally is to practise practise practise.
    Often I see a sentence and like this I know all the words but I don't understand it. But more often than not it's the actual meaning of the cases (what they are indicating) or the aspect of the verb that's throwing me off.
    Practice practice practice! We'll get there! :)
  5. TomKQT

    TomKQT Well-Known Member

    Many times there are multiple possible (and all correct) word orders, each with more or less different meaning or feeling (putting stress to individual pieces of information).

    V parku jsem byl včera. - We're talking about the park and that I was there yesterday.
    Včera jsem byl v parku. - We're talking about what I was doing yesterday (I was in a/the park)
    Já jsem byl včera v parku. - Similar to the previous one, but we were talking about somebody else and now I want to change the subject to me, to what I was doing.
    Byl jsem včera v parku. - A full-lenght answer to "Were you in the park yesterday?".

  6. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    Yes I know. :(
    It's not hard to understand in sentences like that, but as I said in more complicated sentences the cases are what tell you and allow you to see what is subject and what is object so you can translate it into an English SVO sentence and understand it better.

    They call this "Flexibility" in the books for learning Czech but the word order isn't flexible at all, it's changeable, because for example there the jsem always has to be second. So that's not flexible at all!
    Also in a simple sentence like this it's okay but aside from "second position" words like "jsem se" etc. (that rhymes!) there is a general standard order and a lot of rules about where certain "parts of speech" (adjectives, nouns, prepositions, etc. ) can't go or can only go sometimes etc. etc.
    I know we have that in English too, but at least in English we have a SVO order, one consistent thing. (Not including passive structures) Czech word order seems to me absolute chaos with really strict rules hee hee.
  7. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    Ctyri koruny wrote:
    :?: :?: :?:
  8. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    Sorry! ha ha! I meant dzurisova.. I don't think you need any help understanding Czech!
  9. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    It does help - Thanks :)
  10. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Hey, that 'pidi' can be a useful little word.
    Sousedka má dva bílé pidi pudly?
  11. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    Another two "useful" words for scrimshaw: pidimužík and pidilidi :) .
  12. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    Very seasonal! :D

    What does pidi on it's own mean? Something like little?
  13. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    Pidi- is a prefix, not a noun, and it means something tiny or miniature. It is probably derived from the word píď (inch), cf. píďalka = inchworm.
  14. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    cool thanks!
  15. Alexx

    Alexx Well-Known Member

    IMHO píď is rather span then inch :) - way more then one inch (number 4 below)

  16. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Pidilidi :D Nice word

    Trpaslík a pidimuziček jsou synonymní?

    Malá dívka byla tak překvapená, kdy dostal pidikoni pro vanoce.
  17. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    Why is it "pro" and not "na"?
  18. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    Yes, trpaslík and pidimužík mean almost the same.
    Better: Holčička byla tak překvapená, když dostala k vánocům koníčka. (Pidikůň is a lovely word, however, I never saw it before.) :)
  19. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    And ctyrikoruny is right - na vánoce, ne pro vánoce.
  20. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Inch is the right translation for the figurative meaning for small distance.

    Span is the literal translation. In Czech context it is rather the distance between the tip of the thumb a the tip of the middle or index finger when the hand is fully extended.

    Píď comes from pnout (= to span/stretch).

    No, they are very different :twisted:, Pidimuž is one span high while trpaslík is three fists high(trpaslík ← tři + pěsti + male suffix).

    na Vánoce = for Christmas (When?)
    o Vánocích = at Christmas
    k Vánocům = as a Christmas gift
    pro Vánoce = for Christmas (other meanings than “When?” and “as a Christmas gift”)

Share This Page