Czech language test

Discussion in 'General Language' started by Petr_B, Sep 10, 2007.

  1. Petr_B

    Petr_B Well-Known Member

    You can test how your knowledge of Czech language compares to that of Czech fifth-grader here:
    http://zpravy.idnes.cz/soutez_test.asp?id=107.

    Might be too hard for foreigners still trying to learn Czech, but you can give it a shot anyway. Just don't feel discouraged when it doesn't go well, it's not that easy, particularly the theoretical questions. I guess some might have troubles even understanding the questions there.
     
  2. Eleshar

    Eleshar Well-Known Member

    Commentary:

    1) quite a nonsensual sentence, is it not...

    2) ...ok...

    3) simple orthography, not quite a matter of language

    4) simple orthography, not at all a matter of language

    5) simple orthography, not at all a matter of language

    6) facultative! nonsensual question! "kromě" is not used but mentioned! one cannot ask about its word class in this sentence!

    7) ??? I do not get the purpose of this question and what the correct answer says about users knowledge about the use of language

    8) ???!!! and what is THAT supposed to mean? a test whether the reader can read? or what?

    9) there are several definitions of predicate/přísudek

    10) well, that is a question for a foreigner!

    11) eurgh?!?!?!

    12) well... impressive, who would have thought...

    13) good

    14) good

    15) well... ok..

    16) !!! - all those words can be pronounced with a difthong, even though it is much more common to pronounce some of them with two distinct vowels

    17) aaah... phraseology...:)))

    18) well... not only is this a test of Czech language but of linguistic terminology as well!

    19) the problem of antonymity is not that simple;) but... ok

    20) more phraseology:)))

    21) even more!

    22) euw... linguistic categorisation:))

    23) another phraseologic

    24) not sure what is that supposed to mean...

    25) that may proove useful for a foreigner

    26) test of idiocy?

    27) no! stylistics!:)))

    28) still hesitating... stylistics or idiocy?

    29) still hesitating

    30) still hesitating

    So my outcome as of a linguistically educated native speaker:
    27/30
    mistakes: 1, 7, 24

    The outcome of the test after being evaluated by me: 21/30 - and I am very tolerant
     
  3. Petr_B

    Petr_B Well-Known Member

    I got 29 points, mistake in #7. Could be worse, wasn't really sure in some other questions. On the other hand, I'm out of school for over 15 years (and my education sucks), so I don't remember much of the grammar theory.
    I'd like to see similar test for English speakers, though I guess it wouldn't be that hard. I took a BBC test once, I thought it was quite easy, but probably because it seemed to emphasize on spelling, and English spelling is a piece of cake if you learned English in the traditional way at school.
     
  4. MichaelM

    MichaelM Well-Known Member

    Ow! I believe this test makes me somewhat less than a pre-schooler at this point. Back to the books.
     
  5. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    hmmmm :roll: , 13, with some guessing, and assuming.
    Definitely still needed a dictionary. I think I would have to repeat 5th grade. :lol: Maybe I should never have passed 4th.
     
  6. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    25 (but four of them were right guesses).

    Missed:
    #3: Wasn't sure about the rule with multiple subject-verb phrases--made a guess.
    #7: Seems like a common error among native speakers--I don't feel bad about that one.
    #9: Wasn't sure what the strict definition of "predicate" in Czech was.
    #13: Didn't know the grammatical shorthand listed, although in hindsight, I should have been able to figure it out (at least enough to get the answer correct.
    #30: No way I would have known this.

    Guessed right:
    #1: had it narrowed down to 2 choices, a or d
    #6: Wasn't sure if they wanted the usual grammatical usage of the subject word, or the way the word was used in the sentence.
    #20: Wasn't 100% sure, but it sounded right.
    #24: Same as #20
     
  7. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Wow, Sova, that is impressive! 25
    That was pretty advanced for me.
    So let me see, if I can calculate that. You passed easily.
    I was half you score. That puts me somewhere in 2nd grade.
    Not bad.
     
  8. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Hmm, journalists in combinations with the fossils of Czech schools! What a horror!
     
  9. Eleshar

    Eleshar Well-Known Member

    And can you figure out how can word "zlozvyk" be derived from "zvykat" and not from "zvyk"? :wink:

    This test is just stupid, useless piece of thrash and whoever created should be ashamed.
     
  10. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Yes, I can!
    It depends on your version of “vyjmenovaná slova”. :D
    Stupid question! (not yours, that one in the test :D)
     
  11. mbm

    mbm Well-Known Member

    Some the questions in this test are debatable and do not have any absolutely right or wrong answers.

    For example #25, where they ask you to identify monosemous and polysemous words. Whether a speaker percieves a word as polysemous or not, that differs from individual to individual. Some people think that "sešit" has two senses (an exercise book and an issue of a magazine) while others might consider them as manifestations of the same underlying sense.

    And then there is #6 where they're asking you what the word class of the subject in "Kromě je předložka" is. As Eleshar pointed out, the word "kromě" is merely mentioned here and not used, so it is nonsensical to ask about its word class.

    Question #7, I do not understand what difference it makes whether "zlozvyk" is derived from the verb "zvykat" or the noun "zvyk". This is just a technicality and completely irrelevant for practical purposes.

    Maybe I shouldn't expect too much. It's just harmless fun.
     
  12. Troll

    Troll Well-Known Member

    It was very easy - 30 points.

    ---------------

    Čekal jsem nějaké chytáky (např. "celé prázdniny jsem se učil chemii" - bajka), ale žádné tam nebyly. Musíte se na to dívat očima páťáka a moc nad tím nehloubat.

    #7: Vyjmenované slovo bylo a dosud je "zvykat". Namátkou jsem si to ověřil, mimochodem jsem zjistil, že Slováci mají "zvyk".

    #24: Slovo "gramatika" je určitě jednoznačné (alespoň pro páťáka), nad ostatními pak nemá cenu bádat.
     
  13. mbm

    mbm Well-Known Member

    A to je zrovna slovo, které lze zcela rozumně považovat za dvojznačné: za prvé gramatika jako soustava pravidel, podle kterých funguje jazyk, za druhé kniha, ve které jsou tato pravidla sepsaná. Znám dokonce jazyk, ve kterém pro tyto dva koncepty existují dvě různá slova (je to irština, viz tady).
     
  14. Eleshar

    Eleshar Well-Known Member

    Přesně - ve francouzštině to zase má vliv na použití členu, jinak poznámka uživatele Mbm k otázce 25 je naprosto přesná

    ad otázka 7 - ach tak... a to se nemohli zeptat rovnou, jestli je ve vyjmenovaných slovech "zvyk" nebo "zvykat"?
     
  15. Petr_B

    Petr_B Well-Known Member

    According to the information available on idnes.cz, the test was prepared by the agency called Zkoušky nanečisto. Maybe this test is the part of what they use for mock exams for fith-graders who want to apply for "víceletá gymnázia"?
    Anyway, such tests almost always bring controversy, but as it's been already said, this is just a harmless test. For example, you should have seen the ado when the administration of Philosophical Faculty at Palacky University decided to use SCIO tests for entrance exams for English language students, instead of those prepared internally. LOTS of complaints about quality of SCIO tests from the Department of English and American Studies. ;)

    By the way, am I the only one here who's unable to list "vyjmenovaná slova", except for the Z ones? And yet I take pride in fact that I never ever confused i/y, not even once in my life.
     
  16. Troll

    Troll Well-Known Member

    Gramatika ve smyslu kniha gramatických pravidel je ukázkový příklad metonymie. Kdybychom brali v úvahu všechna (i slangová) metonymická a metaforická použití slov, pak je otázka, zda může vůbec nějaké jednoznačné slovo existovat. Např. věta "Udeřil spolužáka do hlavy francouzštinou." zpochybňuje jednoznačnost slova francouzština.

    K té irštině:

    Není to podobné české dvojici slov počty - početnice. V češtině je ale tato dvojice dost ojedinělá (jiný příklad mě nenapadá).
     
  17. Eleshar

    Eleshar Well-Known Member

    No je to pochopitelně původně přenesení významu. A ano, samozřejmě máš pravdu, je těžké najít slovo pouze s jedním významem, protože to skutečně záleží na tom, jak to jednotliví mluvčí cítí.

    Pro někoho jsou to dvě použití téhož významu, pro někoho jsou to dva separátní významy. Pro mě jsou tohle jednoznačně slovo s významy dvěma, narozdíl například od toho "francouzština", které se samo o sobě pro učebnici francouzštiny tak často nepoužívá (věř mi, francouzštinou přicházím do styku ve studijním prostředí už nějakých 11 let a nevybavuji si, že bychom tomu tak říkali...).

    Ono je to asi vesměs podmíněno jménem té knížky. Mluvnice se vžycky bude jmenovat "Mluvnice" nebo "Gramatika" (Gramatika česká, Česká gramatika, Gramatika češtiny, Gramatika českého jazyka, Příruční mluvnice češtiny,... prostě vždycky tam to slovo je), kdežto učebnici francouzštiny se jmenují různě (Panorama, Nouveau sans frontière, Forum, Café Crème,...) a slovo "francouzština" v tom není nikde (ok, existuje jedna "Francouzština pro samouky").
    Možná tomu bylo ještě před lety jinak a když nebyl takový trh s učebnicemi, tak se jmenovala jedna akorát Francouzština, ale to je jev dost časově omezený, zatímco gramatiky se píší (a jmenují se tak) už přibližně dva a půl tisíce let (Grammatiké techné od Dionysia Thraxe, Ars Grammatica od různých římských autorů), takže tam je podle mého názoru význam "kniha gramatických pravidel" velmi dobře usazený.
     
  18. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    6. Kterým slovním druhem je vyjádřen podmět ve větě:
    Kromě je předložka.
    a) předložkou
    b) podstatným jménem
    c) slovesem
    d) slovesem a podstatným jménem

    I guess you did not understand the question - you (or the fifth-grade pupils) are supposed to identify the subject of the sentence first and then define its word class. Thus, IMHO, the word "kromě" is used there (of course, as the subject of the sentence).
     
  19. Eleshar

    Eleshar Well-Known Member

    But you have to understand, that the world is not "kromě" but " 'kromě' " which is a big difference. A preposition can never be the subject of a sentence (by definition).

    We are actually in different level of language in the question - metalanguage (and in the first sentence of this post I used even metalanguage II !). In metalanguage many things are different. It does not make sense to ask about word classes (well, in fact it does, but not in this way... it is a task for semioticans, not fifth graders). In metalanguage, even the bound morphemes can stay isolated

    e.x.: "-a" je koncovka nominativu singuláru feminina.

    Let us ask NOW the question "Kterým slovním druhem je vyjádřen podmět v této větě?"
    noun? adjective? pronoun? numeral? verb? adverb? preposition? conjunction? particle? interjection?
    What about wordclasses we do not have? article? numerative? coverb?

    Understand that this is a very special and intricate sentence.
    In fact, I think that this " 'kromě' " and " '-a' " (notice the double quotation marks!) are nouns! Because they do function exactly as nouns in the metalinguistic sentence. The can stand for subject, they can stand for object (be it direct or indirect), they can assume prepositions of their own and take position of an adverbial... Those properties are shared by nouns.

    And of course I understand the spirit of the question, I only state that such a question is durch-und-durch wrong.
     

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