Locative of kočar

Discussion in 'Grammar & Pronunciation' started by Nicholas Hancock, Aug 9, 2008.

  1. Nicholas Hancock

    Nicholas Hancock New Member

    In Popelka I read 'Ujela ve svém kočaře'. Why is the locative not 'kočaru' as in 'hradu'?


  2. Polednikova

    Polednikova Well-Known Member

    I'll be interested as well. Actually, I thought it would be kočári because the rules I've learned for vocative endings are:

    1. h, ch, k, r, g + international words = u
    2. l, s, z = e (ga=ze; ha=ze; cha=3e; ka=ce; ra=ře; ro=ře)
    3. č, ě, ř, š, ž, d´, t´, c, j, fem/neuter e, -nost = i
    4. b, d, f, m, n, p, t, v = ě
  3. Karel_lerak

    Karel_lerak Well-Known Member

    nom. hrad
    gen. hradu, ostrova
    det. hradu
    acc. hrad
    voc. hrade!, zámku!
    loc. o hradu/hradě; o ostrově/ostrovu
    inst. hradem

    => kočáru, kočáře

    As you can see, both hradu/hradě is possible.
    In one form there is hard consonant d, in the second a soft one ď. The root consonant changes from hard to soft.

    The form na hradě is more common in Moravia, the form with u more common in Bohemia, but there is no general rule.
  4. Polednikova

    Polednikova Well-Known Member

    Ah. It's kočár, I was thinking it was kočář, which is why I thought the locative was kočáři.

    So it's kočáru, but if you use the -e ending, you have to soften the r. Is that the same for all words ending in r? I'm trying to think of another example...

    And Karel, thanks for explaining that ě is more common in Moravia and u in Bohemia, which is probably why whenever I used ě in class, my teacher would always say " but you can also use u", because that's what she would say.
  5. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    It is not a general rule, some of the -e endings are hard, some soft. The standard model nouns are choosen to reflect all the differencies. Compare the vocative “hrade” and the locative “hradě”.

    There is more factors which influence the frequencies of doublet forms. The frequencies could be different for different dialects, for different styles, for different emotions, for different meanings of the words (“zámek” as “castle” × “zámek” as “lock”, “loket” as part of body × “loket” as unit of length), for different prepositions (o hradu × na hradě), for different meanings of one particular preposition (“v kočáře” as “by carriage” × “v kočáru” as “inside carriage”) etc.
  6. Nicholas Hancock

    Nicholas Hancock New Member

    Thanks for the answer to my query about the locative kočaře. But can you please tell me what rules govern the changing of r to ř. I gather that followed by i it changes as in profesoři and kteři, but when followed by i, it doesn’t always change as in rigol.
  7. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    You have either to write properly all the accents or none. The partial accentuation is misleading.
  8. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    “Rigol” follows the original French orthography.
  9. Nicholas Hancock

    Nicholas Hancock New Member

    Thanks again. I'll try to be more careful!


    Čest práci!
  10. Nicholas Hancock

    Nicholas Hancock New Member

    Thanks. This service is fantastic.


    Čest práci!

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