minors and adults dating?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous (Czech-Related)' started by ashe, Jun 11, 2004.

  1. ashe

    ashe Member

    i have a question. I recently met a girl who is 13 dating a 20 year old and they have a child together. I know that her parents were not happy about the kid but they didn't care that she was dating an adult. Here in America thats illegal and unaccepted. Is it like that in Europe also? I found the whole experiance to be weird.
  2. Karel

    Karel Well-Known Member

    The guy should`ve been busted by now provided the Czech law is still in operation and protects the innocent youth until they reach the age of 15. On a human level though, I wouldn`t be suprised if it is as it is, maily because the Czechs are particularists, and don`t make so much fuss over nothing as universal USAnians, I mean Americans, of course :D . By nothing I mean sueing someone for stepping on someone else`s foot and other stupidities. This is definitely serious, but if it happened to my daughter, Good (non-existent) Lord may this never happen, I`d consider several factors before taking any action. Namely, are they happy together? Does it seem to be a long-term relationship leading to a marriage, and so on? It`s beyond doubt that a baby needs both parents, so I`d be anything but rash.

    Well, there are an awful lot of things considered to be illegal in the US, but no one seems to mention those 2 million bandits and pirates, some of whom will walk the famous green mile before making themselves comfortable in the Old Sparky, in the overcrowded US pens. How come that the country with such admired order ranks #1 in the world. Mind you, no other country comes even close to that number of 2M. Apparently because of some metaphysical glitches. :?

    I`m sure this thread will develop yet.
  3. ashe

    ashe Member

    ok, i see. I made a small mistake though. The girl was 12 at the time and she is not czech.

    Yeah, americans have alot of stupid laws but i like the one that protects minors until 18.

    I don't know what their relationship is like though it seems alright but dating a guy 8 years older than you seems quite bazarre when your a minor.

    I have another question for you Karel, do you think such a relationship is fine? i mean, if would you allow your 12 year old daughter to date a 20 year old in an intimate way? I'm open to anyone's oppinion.
  4. Karel

    Karel Well-Known Member

    Hi Ashlee,

    No. I would never approve of such a relationship. But realistically, would I be able to prevent my daughter from meeting him? Probably not. It`s really hard to tell how I`d react or what steps I`d take under such circumstances. First, it has never happened to me. Second, I know very little about the girl`s background. Maybe her mum is 15 years junior her husband, and what the girl really does is walk in her mother`s shoes. Lots of kids follow their parents` ways, regardless of harm or good that comes along with it. Should this case be exceptional? Personally, I believe that proper upbringing is the safest and wisest contraception against such misbehaviour, and the most dicisive element in child`s development to act and think right..

    Although I agree with you that their ages aren`t well balanced, I must say that when I was 12 no girl wanted to date a boy of the same age, always an older one. To my knowledge, there was no involvelment with their heroes, but they went out on a daily basis, had fun, and always bragged about their experiences. Oddly enough, it wasn`t that uncommon when the girl was 5 or even 10 years younger than her bf. Don`t ask me why they didn`t want to date peer boyfriends, I believed in the stork story :D anyway.

    Ashlee, I don`t have any hard data on sexual life of American teens, but a little bird told me that they start at the age of 15. Surely, too early to have a baby, but fairly acceptable to have sex if all precausionary measures are taken, I reckon. If that is a sin, I`m relieved. I know of much worse misdeeds. Don`t let me tell you about "enjo kosai", the thing that is going on in Japan. Assuming that you`re a high school student, and not far from the age of the girl in question, this might hurt your Christian feelings and I don`t want that.

    So, Ashlee, do I advocate the guy? NO. Do these things happen? YES. Can I help her out? NO.

    You know, you can lead a horse to water.....

  5. ashe

    ashe Member

    hello again Karel,
    this is still true today, but I've never met anyone who dated/wanted to date a 20 year old before, except a few 18year olds.
    This little bird was kinda right, about 60-75% of teens do this. However the consequences of this are horrible. People still get pregnant, catch all kinds of diseases and get seriously depressed. Check the statistics for yourself. For instance 42,000 people get an STD everyday in America. The best, and pretty much only way to stop it is to NOT HAVE SEX.
    I seriously doubt you can hurt my "christian feelings" whatever that means...
    So, you mean that you wouldn't care if your daughter went out with her boyfriend they were intimate, she catches an STD from him, he dumps her and is depressed for a long period of time. I can't say that I've met one person who wants to have sex because they love each other and want to express themselves. All it usually ends up being in a little fun and alot of consequences.
  6. idemtidem

    idemtidem Well-Known Member

    It seems kind of funny to me that you say "in America thats illegal and unaccepted" and then "about 60-75% of teens do this". Illegal? Yes. Unaccepted? Hardly.

    I would not be too surprised if this statistic had to do something with the fact that in lots of families sex is tabu. I guess everyone has different priorities - seeing a naked breast doesn't bother me at all while the knowledge that people around me can have a gun whenever they'd like to protect themselves from "noise" does a lot.
  7. Bret

    Bret Active Member

    I think this quote "about 60-75% of teens do this" referred to have sex at 15 years of age not 13 year olds having sex with 20 year olds. That is both illegal and uaccepted in the US and I would hope everywhere.

    Sorry to butt in, but I hate to see people get the wrong idea about America due to something being taken out of context.
  8. idemtidem

    idemtidem Well-Known Member

    Oh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

    But I understand what you mean about getting the wrong idea. I hate it too. I know you mean it in a different way but I don't like seeing that people view the US as the greatest country in the world where nothing is ever wrong. Even lots of Americans have the misconception about things in certain areas and that's just sad.
  9. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    Idemtidem, you've assumed these statements were made in the same context. They weren't, as Bret mentioned. What is both illegal and unaccepted is a 20-year-old having sex with a 13-year-old. It's what's called either molestation or statutory rape (not sure exactly the legal distinction, but I'm sure there is one). What "about 60-75% of teens [presumably] do" is have sex, period (typically it's not with an adult--over 18 ).

    The major objection I have to relationship of 13-year-old with 20-year-olds is the significant discrepancy in maturity. I think it's commonly understood that children (and especially young teenagers) are easily manipulated. Therefore to protect minors from this, they are considered legally unable to consent to sex, when in a relationship with an adult. Hence the usage of the word "rape," indicating that the sexual act(s) are without the consent of one person involved. I am all for this law. Does this mean that I think a barely-turned 18-year-old should be jailed for having sex with a 17-almost-18-year-old? No. But, unfortunately the courts don't rely on common sense.
    I'm with ashe on this one. In general, I think there is way too much acceptance of teenage sex in western culture. As ashe suggested, typically (at least among the cases I have seen in the U.S.) the issue is more about curiosity, than about love or a desire for a serious relationship. Can one stop teenagers from having sex? No. Should we teach them to wait until they're older and wiser, rather than hand out free condoms in school, certainly.
  10. idemtidem

    idemtidem Well-Known Member

    I just thought it was funny to point out those opposing statements - I assumed that "teens" refers not only to people who are 15-18 but also to 11, 12, 13 and 14-teen year olds. I wasn't expressing my opinion on that matter whatsoever - I think even 18 might sometimes be too soon to have sex!

    What I don't understand is what a 20 year old finds attractive about 12 year old :?:
  11. Karel

    Karel Well-Known Member

    Hi everyone,

    Maybe I didn`t make it clear enough when talking about sex, and was thus misunderstood. Peer sex. YES. Paedophiliac sex. NO. (I`ll try to justify peer sex later on)

    The nitty-gritty is that it`s the parents who ought to raise and educate their kids in the best way possible to avoid this. A lot of parents simply don`t care, and when this happens, they freak out. The wagging index finger won`t help as it is too late for it. No mercy for the parents, the deepest sympathy for the injured kids.

    Perhaps you`re the best example of teen awareness. Actually, what made you stay away from the masses and a massive peer pressure? I bet proper upbringing. What`s more, you know the consequences without ever being involved. What a smart and responsible girl you are! Serious. If all parents set their kids a good example, all kids should be Ashlee-like. That was my point.

    Now to peer sex. I must disagree with you Ashe on one line:
    Let`s not this be misunderstood by going paedophilic, and say then 15+.
    No, I don`t think that bottling up your (in general, everyone else`s) emotions is worth while. I also believe, not for nothing, that kids whom I view responsible enough for that are 17+, really should try out this big unknown. I daresay, and I`m likely to be out on a limb for such heresy, that 17+ should definitely have sex with more than partner before getting married.
    Again, this is all about awareness, protection and responsibility. It`s not a big deal to have your bf/gf tested, is it? I wholeheartedly recommend it! Dumping a bf/gf and suffering from depression as a direct consequence of it, is really bad, but frankly, no one has died of a broken heart yet. The dumped must learn to overcome such "tragedies". Like it or lump it. It`s a rough tough world. Isn`t it what you say in the US? OK, she`s 19, dumped, moved, pathetic, yet no kids attached, plenty of fish in the sea, and hopefully a good loving family around. No, it`s not that tragic.

    From my experience, the people who had not one bf/gf, absented from sex till 22 or so, turned the most cunning chiets, and the most polygamic erotomanics in the long run. While the naughty ones who`d led, so to speak, immoral life before they got married, are now good, if not excellent, husbands and wifes. Unsuprisingly, there`s no temptation of the forbidden since you know how it tastes like. Nuff said.

    As for Christian feelings, sorry I was too vague. What I meant is that I didn`t want to deprive you of your christian ideals. Neither did I want to say something that is against christian teachings. (I`ve left the other thread on Religious Fluff for the sake of avoiding any further row). Now it`s back again :( You must`ve heard of the recently released pulp crucifixion, I mean, the passion of Christ, and all that hooha about it. I`m saying it only because I was raised in a christian manner, and know that some Jesus-stricken are very sensitive to any different line of thinking. Even more so, when you touch upon something non-christian which doesn`t quite overlap with the christian dogma.
    Quite the contrary, Ashlee. You`ve been hurt already. By the very story. And that`s why you`ve brought it up. In actual fact, every normal human being is bound to get hurt now and then. If not, I`d call them heartless. Much less would I regard them as Christians.

    Good on you Ashe anyway.

  12. Daniela Paola

    Daniela Paola Member

    I don't know if I understood... America = United States? Because I am from Argentina, American country too, and here is common (to bve common does not mean GOOD, is not the same...) to see little girls (12 - 20) having a baby, or two... or more. And most of times the father is adult. This is not ILLEGAL, and if it is (I am not sure) LAW doesn't work. And we, unluckly, started to "accept" it... we got used to this situation :( .
  13. idemtidem

    idemtidem Well-Known Member

    Yeah, lots of people tend to use the name America when in fact talking about the US. It's especially insulting when an American uses that - to me it sounds like he chooses to ignore the rest of the continent and believes that the US is the only country that matters. :roll:

    As to what you said - I don't think that 20 is a bad age to have a baby. For some it may be too early but for others it can be just right. Having a baby at the age of 12 is very sad.
  14. Daniela Paola

    Daniela Paola Member

    You are totally right.
    About have babies at 20... I agree with you too... but in this times I no longer know if I agree because I got used or... don't know why :)
    Anyway... baby at 12 is bad... because of lot of reasons... Ufff...

    Greetings from Argentina to You.
  15. Bret

    Bret Active Member

    I certainly don't see it that way. In fact, I'm very troubled about the things that are wrong with America. However, there is no other place I would rather live.
  16. ashe

    ashe Member

    this forum is coming alive. It seems like alot people are agreeing with me here... I expecially like what idemtidem said about even 18 possibly being to young to have sex. I totally agree. I'd love if there were a law keeping sex into marriage but that will probably never happen... I don't know what makes this 20 year old so attracted to a 12 year old but my guess is she's an easy target. I happen to have a sister that age and stories like these make me afraid for her and all other young girls.

    i made a mistake in difining your definition of hurt...yes i am hurt by this girls story, its sad that she was used and abused and now has a life to take care of at such a young age. Your idea of having sex with at least 2 people before getting married sickens me. Why bring yourself so close to someone just to be torn apart? And how is it going to help me become a better spouse? If my scenario happened to one of your kids (supposing you have one) I'm sad that you'd let them go through all that. You say that no one's died from a broken heart, but in reality they have; its called suicide. More and more of it happens usually because of depression and broken-heartedness. Once again you can check the stats. You also say you don't want to contradict my beliefs yet you already have, several times. So might as well not hold anything back, I'd really love to hear your oppinion. I have another question for you. What made you turn from your christian upbringing? And what do you call christian upbringing? I ask the latter question because what some people call christian isn't and i just want to be sure.

    About calling the u.s. "America"
    I'm really sorry. I have no idea why "we" call ourselves that. if your from any other part of America(the continents) i don't care if you call yourselves americans too. If i'm insulting someone i'll stop though.

    Thanks people for helping clear up the misconceptions on my quote "60-70% of americans do this." I was a little to vague.

    your totally right about sex being a "taboo" subject in american families. This is starting to change alot as things get worse and worse.

    well thats all i have to say...which happens to be alot :p
  17. idemtidem

    idemtidem Well-Known Member

    Well, I have to disagree because I don't think there's any need for that kind of law. And I don't believe that people have to wait to have sex until they are married. In my opinion it doesn't matter whether you signed the paper already or not - what's important is whether they have a meaningful relationship that they are serious about.

    It's taboo still! We are allowed to see people being shot, tortured and what not on tv but every single breast or bum needs to be blurred out?? It's just turned upside down - I know of no one who has been born with no sexual activity or genitals involved...yet kids see lives being ended and can't know anything about how a life begins?
  18. ashe

    ashe Member

    i was again mistaken about what you meant as taboo. I have to disagree though. I would be very angry to have my child watch someone have sex or see a breast, ect,ect. My biggest problem with having that kind of stuff on t.v. is its usually a lustful, nonmeaningful relationship, which is a bad example. However there is waaaaaaay to much killing on t.v. these days.
  19. idemtidem

    idemtidem Well-Known Member

    Well, I didn't mean watching people having sex!! LOOL! That I would consider over the edge! But there's no way a kid could have been affected in a negative way because he/she saw Janet Jackson's breast on tv. Unless he/she has freaky parents who make a huuuge deal out of it - then he/she is in a trouble.

    What was it that you had in mind when I said "taboo"?
  20. ashe

    ashe Member

    i almost thought you were insane with that last post. sorry for my very embarrasing misunderstanding. :oops: lol

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