hi! i've just started to learn czech and came by the word mesto (city). when i listen to the cd it (sometimes) sounds like mnesto...? thanks for help!
Well, it should sound like "mněsto"... the pronunciation "mjesto" can sometimes be heard in the Ostrava region (Ostrava dialect).
In fact, the pronunciation [mjesto] is correct, the epenthetic (parasitic) 'n' is colloquial, though widespread.
I just wonder where you got it from... In standard Czech, m+ě is pronounced as m+ň+e (see Pravidla českého pravopisu).
Gebauerova Příruční mluvnice jazyka českého. Upravil Dr. Fr. Trávníček. (4. vyd., Praha 1930) V kapitole o změnách samohlásek se píše: V kapitole o změnách souhlásek se píše: IMHO z toho plyne, že výslovnost [mňe] (ve slovích jako město) je výslovnost obecná, která mimochodem způsobuje pravopisné chyby. Pravidla českého pravopisu většinou uvádějí: nebo Je skvělé, že "pravidla" (t.j. ÚJČ AV) dovolují i správnou výslovnost .
Je skvělé, že Pravidla českého pravopisu reflektují na vývoj onoho živého organismu zvaného jazyk; nebývá tomu tak vždy. To, co uvádí Gebauer, resp. Trávníček, platilo snad v onom roce 1930; nemám z té doby vlastní zkušenosti, ale můj otec, žák Trávníčkův na brněnské Masarykově universitě v druhé polovině let třicátých, si pamatoval bouřlivé diskuse o rozporech mezi teorií a praktickým užíváním češtiny. Jsem spíše staromilec, spousta novo- a patvarů - zvláště novinářského jazyka - se mi příčí, ale zdá se mi, že vývoj jazyka se pravidly moc spoutávat nedá. V případě onoho "mjesta" vs. "mněsta" je dnes na úrovni teorie sporné, co je spisovná a co obecná výslovnost, v praxi uslyšíme "mjesto" ("mjeký", "mjesíc" atd.) jen vzácně. Asi proto, že jen málokdo mluví spisovnou češtinou... :wink:
Szarkafarka, in the manuals I have, the only pronunciation indicated for mě is [mnje], not [mje]. Besides it is the one I heard on the tram or the metro. So, as a foreigner, I suppose [mnje] is the standard pronunciation, and the one to be learnt.
:shock: Jana, when have you been to Ostrava? :lol: I live (all my life) in Rychvald, just a few mins on feet from border with Ostrava . I tryed to speak "město" for both versions mjesto vs. mněsto . I hear 50% x 50%. :lol: Let's see, last weekend in August I spend in Prague...
To Canadian Love: You cannot take the Prague pronunciation as relevant - all they can do is offend our beautiful mother´s tongue... :roll:
To Jana: what is it about the prague dialect that people outside the capital find so offensive? is it just the diphthongisation of -ý? i understand that the moravian dialects are closer to the standard, but there has been a serious discrepancy between the standard and spoken language since it's revival (based on the archaic language of the kralice bible). i find it particularly interesting that the dialect spoken in the capital is met with derision elsewhere in the country. can't think of another such example off-hand... anyone?
Well, it is not just about the declension or conjugation deviations typical for Prague lingo, it is the intonation that sounds funny to the "country" people. We say that Prague people are "singing", not speaking. And the abuse of a pad word hele is the icing on the cake. But, in my opinion, all this is kind-hearted teasing only .
i've been told about the singing intonation thought it was typical of all spoken czech though... i'm probably moving to prague next year, so please enlighten me as to the meaning/usages of the ubiquitous hele :?: just so i can recognize them, of course :wink:
Hele (or heleď, in plur. heleďte, imperative of hledět - to look, to see) is a contact word which usually starts a dialogue. It attracts an attention and means "look!" or "see here!". Hele (vole), kam deš? - Look, where are you going? the Standard Czech version: Poslyš, kam jdeš?
