no idea how to...

Discussion in 'Grammar & Pronunciation' started by Calvario, Jun 28, 2007.

  1. Calvario

    Calvario Well-Known Member

    I want to write some thing on my daughters cast.

    God Bless you, get well soon.

    Something like: Bůh žehnat tě, brzké uydravení.

    Also: Chci psát něco na jejím vrhu,odliteku,hodě (I don't know which word to use for cast)

    Chcí psát něco na mé deceře vrhu,odliteku.hodě.

    I'm not sure if NA is the correct preposition to use here for "write ON ..." I just went with it and thought it might be in the locative.

  2. eso

    eso Well-Known Member

    Bůh ti žehnej, brzo se uzdrav.

    I'm sorry, I don't know what is "cast" in this context. It seems you are talking about some kind of event, but I can't find similar meaning in any dictionary.
  3. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    Cast means here "sádra", plaster fixation of a broken bone.
    So "Chci jí napsat něco na sádru. Bůh ti žehnej a brzo se uzdrav."
    or "S Boží pomocí se brzo uzdrav."
  4. eso

    eso Well-Known Member

    AHA! :)
  5. Calvario

    Calvario Well-Known Member

    Great. So then also. How about .

    I want to wrote something on my daughters cast.

    I saw a sentence using her. But i would like to see the above sentence written out. Also, Does "God Bless you" take the DATIVE ti not ACC tě.

    " On my daughters..." is this in the acc. or loc. I looked for jí is this a form of "her" as a possesive pronoun?

  6. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    I want to write something on my daughter´s cast - chci něco napsat dceři (dative) na sádru or chci něco napsat na dceřinu (possessive adjective) sádru (accusative).

    Bůh ti žehnej - the verb is žehnat komu, čemu, i.e. followed by a noun in dative.

    - it is not a possessive pronoun, it is a dative of ona (she), i.e. personal pronoun. The relevant possessive pronoun here would be její (her).
  7. Troll

    Troll Well-Known Member

    Žehnat koho (acc.) is also possible.

    Žehnám tě skrze našeho Pána Ježíše Krista.
  8. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    I bless you ??? our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Please fill in the missing word and let me know if I have any mistakes.


    I thought genative follows the prep na. So if the nomative is sádra, why is it not "na sádry" ?

    Oh this language is so confusing! :)
  9. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    Žehnám tě (correct is ti, but tě is quite common) skrze našeho Pána Ježíše Krista - I bless you through the mediation of Our Lord, Jesus Christ.

    Na is a preposition followed by accusative (na koho, na co - e.g. položit knihu na stůl) or locative (na kom, na čem - kniha leží na stole).
  10. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    BTW, "na sádry" would be correct if you meant two or more casts, as it is accusative of feminine plural nouns of the paradigm "žena". See - he was writing on two casts - psal na dvě sádry.
  11. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Chci napsat něco na jejím vrhu.
    That looks like exactly the kind of mistake I would make.

    It is funny to watch fellow native english speakers write sentences in czech
    because we attempt to use literal direct word for word translation, and I imagine it sounds pretty awkward.

    So the original writer of that sentence tried tgo use cast,....
    as in,.....That is the shadow, that is cast by that tree.
    And even that's probably wrong since I'm using it there like a past participle.
  12. Calvario

    Calvario Well-Known Member

    Hey Scrimshaw.

    Your right, I threw out every word under cast I could find until I got a hit. Oh we native English speakers, who can help us :lol:

  13. Calvario

    Calvario Well-Known Member


    1-chci něco napsat dceři na sádru.

    It seems like : " I want to write something TO my daughter on a cast

    2 Chci něco napsat na dceřinu sádru.

    Seems more literal to: " I want to write something on my daughters cast

    3- Chci jí napsat něco na sádru.

    " I want to write something to her on a cast.

    Am I understanding the distinction between the three sentences correctly in that 1 and 3 are written TO daughter/her ON a cast and in 2 written on daughters cast.

    Hope you understand what I mean. just seems like in 1 and 3 there is a seperation between daughter and cast whereas in the original sentence it was written " on daughters cast" .

    Last: Does "na sádru" imply in 1 and 2 " ...on HER cast" or just " ..on a/the cast"

  14. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    Yes, you understand it, but there is no separation between daughter and cast in the meaning, just in the structure of the sentences 1 and 3, vs 2. Most Czechs would prefer the expression "dceři na sádru", as "dceřinu sádru" sounds bookish. They would even say "holce na sádru" or use their daughter´s name instead of saying my daughter.
    And yes again, all sentences imply that my daughter´s cast is involved here.
  15. Eleshar

    Eleshar Well-Known Member

    The correct expression is "dceři na sádru", the other is quite cumbersome.
    The answer on question "why" is that the dative case has also a possessive meaning. It is manily used when talking about parts of someones body:

    I cut of his hand - Usekl jsem mu ruku (not "Usekl jsem jeho ruku")
    I knocked out his teeth - Vyrazil jsem mu zuby (not "Vyrazil jsem jeho zuby")

    The reason is that the dative suggest more "intimate" relation between the "hand/teeth" and the person whom it was/they were "cut off/knocked out".
    With a possessive pronoun it sounds to me as if there had already been a severed hand which I cut off once again or perhaps a sack of somebody's teeth which I knocked out of the sack.

    This is a part of larger problem of syntax:
    There is surface structure - the syntactical representation
    and there is the deep structure - the meaning

    The meaning is that
    Somebody--------did---------something--------to someone
    (who does)-----(what happens)--(object)------(to whom)
    ----I-------------cut off---------the hand-----------of him

    "I" is the agent because it is I who perform the action
    "the hand" is the patient because upon it the action is done
    "he" is the beneficient (however paradoxically it may sound in thisparticular case) because he receives the benefits/damages of the action

    This deep structure is thought by some linguists to be universal for all languages (with which I do not agree but I admit that it could be culturally common for some in some cases) and is reflected in particular languages in different ways.
    In this case, the Czech preserves more the deep structure, explicitely expressing the beneficient of the action by a dative, the natural case of the beneficient.
    However the English prefers rather genitive construction insisting the hand's immediate origin (genus).

    This "intimate possessivity" of the dative case is a very important feature of Slavic languages however seldom it is even mentioned... and it is used very frequently.
    "napsal jsem jí na sádru nápis" is simply more natural than "napsal jsem nápis na její sádru" because the second one is rather a simple possession as if she possessed the cast, not wore it (the same with the teeth - with genitive it sounds as if someone tried to say he *possesses* his own teeth - with dative, it is just a neutral statement).
  16. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Thanks for that explanation eleshar.
    I clearly see how it is used now.

    Vypadli jí téměř zuby, když jsem jí na to řekl....Her teeth almost fell out
    Spadli na podlahu všechny její zuby, které pořád z nějakého důvodů nosí ve své tašce.

    I see the difference.
    Hope I got it right.
  17. Eleshar

    Eleshar Well-Known Member

    Yep, you got it :D
  18. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    Vypadly jí téměř zuby, když jsem jí na to řekl....Her teeth almost fell out
    Spadly na podlahu všechny její zuby, které pořád z nějakého důvodu nosí ve své tašce. (Here, it would sound better ... na podlahu spadly všechny její zuby...)
  19. Eleshar

    Eleshar Well-Known Member

    right :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Share This Page