relationships and infidelity

Discussion in 'Culture' started by northover, Dec 14, 2008.

  1. northover

    northover New Member

    this post has been removed. after much prayer and consideration i have decided to take the advice of many you fellow bloggers and "get over it". I realize that to get past this I must make the first of many steps to release the pain. Anger and hurt is what kept me locked in this vicious cycle of revenge. and it has done nothing to make me feel better. Thank you all for your advice, comments, and remarks.
  2. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    I think you were right in saying that this eejits treatment of you will have affected your outlook on Czech people.
    I am sorry that this happened to you.

    I think maybe it is best for you to forget about anything and everything you associate with him and move on with your life, instead of blindly blaming everything and everyone.
  3. northover

    northover New Member

  4. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    Well I've experienced just the opposite. I can give you my comparison but I must clarify that when speaking of Americans, I have to distinguish between believers and non-believers in Christianity because the believers I spend time with have a much different opinion of infidelity my non-beleiving friends. Also, all the Czechs I know are non-believers. So with that background information, here goes...

    Its been my experience that the Czech people I know support the sanctity of marriage more than the Americans (non-believers). American men here have no quams about flirting with married women and several American men cheat on thier spouses. Whereas the Czech men are very respectful of the fact that I'm a married woman and respect my husband as well. Americans are also MUCH more tolerant of others who have affairs, viewing it as "thier choice" and hold a "whatever" attitude whereas the Czechs I know are much less tolerant of it and much more vocal of thier attitude toward the immoral behavior of the affair.

    Keep in mind the Czechs I know are mostly above age 35 and I only know about 30 Czech people here in the States and maybe 20 in CR, which is a small sample size. Most the American non-believers I hang out with are between ages 25-45. Perhaps that makes a big difference but still, I hope it helps provide an outlook to your question.
  5. PGN

    PGN Well-Known Member

    This is one of the few times that I disagree with Dzurisova.

    The sancity of marriage is not a culture specific emotion, it has nothing to do with religion, it is a commitment between two people. Whether it be in a church or a legal setting.

    American men that flirt or Czech men that flirt are NOT culture specific, these are men that don't stick to a commintment.

    I have been a part of the Czech/American community for 15 years now, no culture has the upper hand on fidelity. Religion or social norms included. It is not an accepted practice for American males to cheat on thier wives, if it was President Clinton would not have had so many problems when he was in office.

    My peers, the American men, have serious qualms against cheating on thier wives, so much that they will lose thier jobs and social standing. Infidelity is not tolerated.

    My personal experience is that Czech women will say "Well so and so dances better" or "When I get a new job, maybe I'll meet someone." These aren't threats, these are references that the partner needs to spend more time woeing the other.

    Why are we, as a community so quick to label everything bad as American or Czech?
  6. PGN

    PGN Well-Known Member

    @ Dzurisova,

    The more I read your post the higher my blood pressure rises... :D

    What you claim to be 'American' is exactly why I was able to win my reason for waking up each morning.

    My current and only wife until the day that I die was trapped in a marriage, in the Czech Republic, with a Czech man that included him cheating, flirting, and making a slave of her.

    I'm sitting here in the states watching as all of our Czech friends are getting devorced, none of the devorces are for infidelity. The devorces are because they didn't 'click' after the marriage.

    We did a Make A Wish trip to lego land last summer, the key to a relationship is making it 'click.' No matter how much you try to force a block together, if it doesn't 'click, you won't create your goal.
  7. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    @ PGN

    Hi, well first off I want to apologize for raising your blood pressure. We don't want any ambulances called for my doing. :) Secondly, I want to say that I'm glad to hear that most the time you agree with what I have to say. :p Thirdly, I want to point out that I did state that my American friends are young therefore perhaps the different outlook on marriage may have to do with age rather than culture. Forth, I'd like to point out that my post CLEARLY states that it's been my experience. Now how are you gonna go and disagree with my experience if you weren't there to share in the experience. :D

    Now I was obviously making a generalization (as a Sociologist, we love to look at differences in generalizations rather than individuals). And notice that I pointed out that my generalization is from a small sample of people.

    I do have to disagree with you that religion has no influence on one's perception of infidelity. On the contrary, it has a significant influence for many people. Perhaps in you're sample size, it has a small influence. :)

    Thanks for letting me know what you think. I enjoy a good discussion.
  8. MK

    MK Well-Known Member

    Now you get to the core of it. They divorce because that "non click" but it can be caused by many things one of them can be adultery.

    People here do not commit adultery or (when so they) hide it because it can harm their relationship which they value much more.

    Focus on importance of non infidelity is religion think so it make no sense for most Czechs. For Czechs it is only one of many thinks which can harm their relationship with loved one hence when love is still present there is no infidelity.

    I can not judge which nation is more faithful but I learned one thing. More norms means more willingness to break them so I believe what dzurisova wrote about larger tendency to infidelity in US.
  9. PGN

    PGN Well-Known Member

    @ Dzurisova,

    Yes, you did clearly say that it has been your experience. Then you go into American men here.....that is a generalization, not specific to your experiences.

    When you go away from your experiences and then make general statements about American men...cheating on thier spouses....much more tolerant of other who have affairs.....whatever just put the whole American male population into the mix.

    I fall into your age group, 25-45. As a Socialogist you know that making a generalization will lead to a subjective assessment which will invalidate the results.

    I didn't articulate my feelings I clearly, I didn't think that I was saying that religion has no influence..I was posting about the very core of a marriage..commitment between two people, not between a religion, culture, social status, or national identity. Without the foundation of a commitment between the two people all of these things are excuses for separation, devorce or whatever....

    There is a human failing that plays into this, failure to accept responsibility. We, collectively are fast to blame it on something out of our control than to look in a mirror and realize that it was our own shortcomings that got us into the perdicament.

    @ MK, Could you expand on the "people do not commit or hide adultery"?

    Thanks :D
  10. MK

    MK Well-Known Member

    they either do not commit it or (when they do it then they carefully) hide it ...

    ...because of horrible consequences

    it is really not very self explanatory, i will edit it little
  11. MK

    MK Well-Known Member

    Commitment has also other meaning - imprisonment :?

    Is it really between two people? Lot of people live long time together "na psí knížku" (on dog passport - understand unmarried) and they marry just before their first child. It is more and more about "family commitment" then about "two people commitment".

    Anyway Czech Republic has very high number of divorces. IMHO I think this number will be sinking because people now marry more mature and with some experience with living together.
  12. PGN

    PGN Well-Known Member

    Imprisonment :lol: I guess it all depends on how you look at it. Good play of words but I'll add that no plan survives first contact.

    A commitment can be made on say October 28th that is solid, by October 29th if both parties don't adjust, accommadate, change perspectives, grow the relationship then eventually...could be many years later Jan 1st comes around and if your money isn't's worthless. 8) :D

    You are indirectly agreeing with what I posted. Living on a dog passport is a commitment, this is the first block of the foundation of a relationship. Without the original commitment you are building a house of cards that a stiff breeze could blow down....doesn't matter what the religion or national concenus commitment = ka ka :oops:
  13. MK

    MK Well-Known Member

    Glad it turned out we are saying the same things, only using differnet words.


    Maybe I messed it up with dog passport- it is just Czech phrase for "living together without marriage".

    Start living together is some kind of commitment but commitment which can be broken very easily. On the other side marriage is "institutional" commitment, the real one. It also can be "broken" easily but not as much easily - there is some paperwork included.
  14. PGN

    PGN Well-Known Member

    You didn't mess up with the dog passport, I knew exactly what you were talking about. I think I first heard that reference while reading the Good Soldier about 12 years ago.... :wink:

    My opinion is that living together really isn't a commitment within itself....kind of like taking a new car on a test drive, you don't know if you will buy the car yet.

    Living together can be a commitment when you go into it without the feeling that it can be broken very easily.

    Giving your word, commitment, honor to someone is one of the few things in life that no one can take from you. Breaking the word, commitment, or honor is something that only the individual can do.

    I think if people go into a commitment with an open mind and a willingness to adapt and grow the relationship.....this will be ultimately successful.

    Unfortunately people have a tendancy to go into a commitment....half committed with a throw away/recycle mentality. If the partner doesn't do exactly as wanted...........the commitment/marriage is over without a second thought. It is almost an 'entitlement' mentality....he or she is committed to me so he or she needs to adjust to my wants and desires.

    That isn't a commitment, it is a selfish relationship that turns into a prison term for the other or a breaking up of the union.
  15. MK

    MK Well-Known Member

    I wish it will be so easy. It is good start. Unfortunately as time flows people are changing. Relationship needs to be cared for continuously. It is never ending process either befor or after marriage.

    I think some "dog passport" period before marriage can solve it. The marriage is then for the relationship only "cherry on the top".

    Your focus on commitment (marriage) vs focus on relationship regardless marital status bring back the religion issue.

    My point of view is that relationship between two people is the treasure and marriage is "cherry on top". It is non-religion approach typical for many Czechs. On the contrary for you the commitment (marriage) is the thing which is priceless. It is religion approach.

    I think when two people who are not ready and mature enough will marry then (regardless big enthusiasm in the beginning) it could bring lot of bad things as infidelity into their relationship. The religion approach force people to marry too soon and so it could produce more unfortunate couples.
  16. PGN

    PGN Well-Known Member


    My commitment focus is on the relationship, doesn't matter if it was in a church or town hall. This is the foundation of what I was posting, religion, nationality isn't the issue. The issue is being committed to another person and willing to give and take in order to make the relationship last and blossom into the cherries. :D
  17. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    quote="PGN"]@ Dzurisova,

    Yes, you did clearly say that it has been your experience. Then you go into American men here.....that is a generalization, not specific to your experiences. [/quote]

    I was speaking about the American men in my experience, in other words, the American men I know; which is why I had to distinguish between believers and non-believers. The American believers I know think nothing like what I described of most of the American non-believers I know. And let me express that its not really just men, many American non-believing women that I know hold the same opinions. I understand that this may not be your experience of the Americans you know. Perhaps my non-believing friends are just loosely moral'd. (not really a word for those of you trying to perfect your English). :)

    In sociology, subjective assessments don't always invalidate the results which is why many claim it’s a pseudo-science. :) In fact, in sociology, most assessments are subjective and in generalizations. After all, it's the study of cultures and human behavior which is why we state correlations rather than causations.
  18. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    I never said that! ... well, at least not out loud ... well, er uh, at least not to my sociologist brother ... hmm
    Human social behavior is in general far too nonlinear in its interactions to be able to formulate reliable social models of behavior (I mean in a predictive sense). The only route left to the sociologist is the application of statistics to find correlations. A lot of "real" science (e.g. medicine) is performed in the same way.

    Back to the topic:

    It seems to me (now I'm generalizing based on my own experiences), that more Czech marriages than American marriage are (or were 15 years ago) based on childhood (gymnazium or earlier) friendships that grow into romantic relationships. When comparing Czech and American marriages/relationships and divorce rates/infidelity, that this should be considered. Long-term friendships, which predate romantic involvement, typically will strengthen a couple's commitment to one another, both in terms of staying together and of fidelity.

    I totally agree with the first statement--and while I agree the second statement has some truth in it (at least in some cases, it may be true), most religions I am familiar with teach that marriage is a commitment that should be taken very seriously and approached with much thought to the future. I would suggest that the cases where the second statement will hold true will most likely be those where a couple's physical attraction (rather than any other commonalities) is the driving force in creating and sustaining the relationship.
  19. Anna683

    Anna683 Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry about your experience, northover. I hope you can put it behind you and not let it hold you back.

    General question to anyone who feels like answering:
    Is it fair to say that Czechs tend to regard infidelity as something that's bound to happen at some point in a relationship ...?
  20. BlackBox

    BlackBox Active Member

    No. How do people arrive to this kind of ideas?

    I would say however, and I believe many Czechs would agree, that infidelity is more like a symptom than a cause of bad relationship. If you do not have good relationship, then infidelity is probably bound to happen in some point of relationship. It would be wrong to conclude that if one person is unfaithful in a marriage, that this is a cause of divorce. Rigid religious interpretation would probably lay all blame on the one who is unfaithful, but relations are far more complex than this.

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