Rules for Vocative noun case

hmm I'm sure there is 'pravdepodobne' a book as long as the Yongle Dadian with over 2200 chapters illustrating the exact rules as to how to do this , hahhaha, but I wonder if anybody has a "cliff-notes" version of how to calculate names in the "Vocative" grammatical case ... you know.. like an EASIER way? Yeah I suffer from A.D.D like BIG TIME, so reading a novel about Vocative noun cases in Czech the same size as 'The Odyssey by Homer' might kill me.

For example I know that my friend Doug, when I address him, changes to DOUGU, and Vlada changes to Vlado, Jiri, also --> Jirko , but what about my other friends who have names that end in weird consonants or my NON-Czech friends whos names I have yet to hear used in the vocative case, like 'například', RADEK, ends in "K", and my friend Victor, obviously an "R". Should I just memorize a few of them first and THEN learn the rule or does anybody have a good way of explaining this? Any help is greatly appreciated.

-M_

 

Hi Milton
A few quick and dirty rules:-
Male and female names ending in -a become -o
e.g
Evička -> Evičko!
Tonda -> Tondo!

Male names ending with consonants -g, -h, -ch and -k become -u
e.g
Pepík -> Pepíku!
Male names with other consonant endings become -e
e.g.
filip -> filipe!
Pavel -> Pavle!
One exception
Petr -> Petře!

Some names like Jiři don't decline. Jirka is a dimunative and declines to the rules above.
I hope this is of help
Phil

 

Yes, this is the only simple case. These names are of model "předseda" or "žena" respectively and the vocative suffix for both models is "-o".

I can't guarantee it. I guess all such names are of model "pán" but the suffix "-u" is'nt sure. I can't remember name breaking this rule but see word "Bůh" (nom. Bůh; voc. Bože).

I disagree, this is valid only for names of model "pán". Of course, there are names of other models. Especially soft model "muž" with suffix "-i" in vocative:
Tomáš -> Tomáši
Matěj -> Matěji

"Jiří" is declinable but nominative and vocative are identical. But some foreign names could be indeclinable.

It is'nt diminutive but familiar form. Diminutives are "Jiřík" and "Jiříček".

 

For those who don't understand what Wer is talking about when he says

see here:

http://www.locallingo.com/czech/grammar/nouns_declension.html

then click on one of the following and you will see the examples and how they decline.

• Declension of masculine nouns
• Declension of feminine nouns
• Declension of neuter nouns

If you are trying to learn Czech, it's a good idea to memorize these examples. I've been told that young czech children have to memorize them in school.

 

Yes, but it is useful (or even necessary) only for:

1. learning orthography of Literary Czech
2. studying grammar (syntax, parsing, ...)

Memorizing tables is not necessary for speaking.

 

isnt it? then how are you supposed to understand the role of each word in a sentence if you dont know endings?

 

I beg to differ with this comment. When learning to speak Czech, if I want to say something correctly, I would need to know how to decline the word.

For example: Let's say I want to tell someone "I have the keys to your house and I will bring them to the game tomorrow"

In Czech such a sentence demands a lot of declension. An excellent way to know how to decline the words in that sentence is to think of which example word it matches in the table and decline it the same way. This may not always work, but it seems to be the best way to learn how to decline words so one may speak the language correctly.

Just my thoughts. :wink: :lol:

 

You underestimate the ability of the human brain to do something subconsciously.

Learn whole Czech sentences and let your brain to abstract the grammar rules. One day you'll start to speak Czech correctly without even knowing how many cases the Czech language has. This method is used intuitively by the little children. We must reveal them in school that Czech has 7 cases because they use them unconsciously. The grammar terminology is another story. It cannot be abstracted from the spoken speech.

It is still disputable which learning method is the best for the adults learning foreign languages.

 

I agree that if one were learning the language by full-emersion into the language, they would not have to learn tables (which is the way children learn the language), but for those learning from books instead of emersion, I think tables might be the best way to go.

However, perhaps we are both correct. :wink: I'm sure you've heard of right brain/left brain. Perhaps some learn best by learning tables and others learn best by simply memorizing sentences.

Just like some people find it easier to find a place by looking at a map and others prefer written step by step directions.

 

Well Im one of those who learned tables first and I still write them ALL down twice a week. Thats the same approch done at lyceum, learning latin nd greek btw: the first thing they teach you is tables.

But im also learning words and sentences.
The real problem for those who just learn sentences is, accordin to me, that you are ok as long as you find the sentence in the exact way you have learned it.... but obviously not everyone in this world will speak/write using those exact words. What if the sentence is the same but passive? Or if they add a couple of words? Or use a sinonym?

You cant learn every possible sentence. Not even a machine could.
The best way, I think, is to learn many many many words and tables... so you can make your own sentences and understand what ppl say/write.


Have you guys ever tried to read the sentences of the "books for travelers"? These are useful sentences, of course, but the prob is that ppl doesnt usually answer the way that is written in the book eheh

 

Kikko, you have misunderstood the method. You need not to learn all possible sentences of a language. You learn some sentences and the side effect is that you learn grammar structures. This process can be subconscious. You must begin with simple sentences, of course, like children. At the end you know the structures and words and are able to speak fluently.

Do you think that a Phoenician merchant or a barbarian immigrant in Rome learned Latin by memorizing morphological tables? :wink:

 

hmm ok I learned some shortcut names today like e.g. Jan ---> becomes Honza... (because of historical ties to German.... Hanz) and Josef ---> becomes Pepa ( I'm not clear why) and Vladislav can be reiterated as Vlada, Miroslav--> Mirek and so forth... but what the hell about Stanislav, which to me sounds like a czech rendition of just Stan... and how would you call Stanislav or Stan in vocative case??


locallingo dot com lists NO rules for a male noun ending in "V"


POMOC

 

Yes, probably from German Hans or, maybe, directly from Johan (or some similar form of this name).

Sometimes even only Láďa (but, in fact, that's different name - Ladislav).

or Míra or Slávek or...

No soap, Stanislav is Slavic name.
Familiar forms of Stanislav are "Standa", "Stáňa", "Staník"...

Corresponding vocative forms: Stanislave, Stando, Stáňo, Staníku...

Male names ending in "v" are of model "pán" or perhaps also (now, I can't remember such name) "muž".

 

For example: Let's say I want to tell someone "I have the keys to your house and I will bring them to the game tomorrow"

In Czech such a sentence demands a lot of declension.


Mam klice tvemu domu/na tve dum,/od tveho domu(???) a prinesu je zitra na hristi.

How'd I do?

 

I'm not sure what means your "game".
zápas = match
hřiště = playing area/field, playground

 

aha---zapas

Deti hrajou zapas na hristi za skolem,

thanks for that

 

Correct would be Děti hrajou/hrají zápas na hřišti za školou (feminine, pattern žena).

 

Dekuju
Za nasi skolou, vidim spoustu deti jak hraji zapas v studenym deste,
Jejidh matky jim nikdy nerekli lip nez to, Vsadim se, ze cela
skupina z nich pujdou domu s chripkami..

 

Za naší školou vidím spoustu dětí, jak hrají zápas v studeném dešti. Jejich matky jim vždycky říkaly: "Vsadím se, že všichni přijdete domů s chřipkou..."

 

Muzu rozumet obema strankam tehle diskuse.
Urcite "tables" jsou velmi uziitecne, a ja je obcas pouzivam.
Na druhou stranu, jak rekl Eso, dite, pred prvni den skoly umeji zasadne
zaklady jazyku i kdyz asi nevedeli ze existujou sedm padu,
V dni pred vsichni chodil do skoly, lide se to museli ucit jen svymi zvlastni uchy sam.