Short quick,probably stupid question

Discussion in 'General Language' started by scrimshaw, Dec 9, 2005.

  1. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Can a Czech noun in it's nominative singular form ever end in Y?

    bonus question

    What's the difference between tu and tady. When do you use one instead of the other?
    Vam dekuju predem

    This board is a great resource

    Z mesta kde lisky se davaji dobrou noc, pres more.
  2. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Hi Scrimshaw,

    Czech noun in nominative singular form can't end with y. Possible exceptions are nouns of foreign origin (e.g. body = bodysuit, Harry, Lucy,...).

    There's no difference between "tu", "tady" and also "zde". All Czechs understand them in the same way but their frequency differs in regions.

    Vam dekuju predem :arrow: Děkuju (or more formally "děkuji") Vám předem

    Z mesta kde lisky se davaji dobrou noc. :arrow: Z města kde (si) lišky dávají dobrou noc.
  3. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Thanks for answering wer
    That clears some things up for me.

    These are all gramatically correct sentences? Just that you would here them more in different areas of the country?

    Je tu nekde knihkupectvi?
    je tady nekde ........
    Je zde nekde..........

    Lisky si tam davaji dobrou noc....Thanks again
  4. Zeisig

    Zeisig Well-Known Member

    IMHO tady, tu are not strictly grammatically equivalent.

    tu is rather enclitic

    Je tu (or tady) někde knihkupectví?

    Tady někde musí být knihkupectví.

    Mám to tu černé na bílém.
    Tady to mám černé na bílém.
  5. Zeisig

    Zeisig Well-Known Member

    Czech nouns can end with the long ý (or á, í): hajný, porybný, strážný, etc. Such nouns are substantivized adjectives in fact.
  6. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Myslim, ze konecne rozumim. Well, not really, still pretty vague. Safer just to stay with tady probably. Tu can be inserted after a verb, but never used to begin a sentence. Am I close?
    Mam tu to cerne na bilem.
  7. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Zeisig seems to be linguistic expert. :D That's all correct.

    Mam tu to cerne na bilem. ---> Mám to tu černé na bílém.
  8. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Wow-that's pretty bad. I have it written right out in front of me and I still get it wrong.
    Mam to tu cerne na bilem.

    You know somethin that's pretty tricky to figure out is the use of 'to" .
    If it is the subject it can just be included in the verb, I get that, but sometimes it just seems to pop up in sentences and I'm not sure why.
  9. Kanadanka

    Kanadanka Well-Known Member

    Skrimshaw, I am wondering... your signature
    Zivot je vzdy dobry, kdyz otevreme oci.
    Krasne je casto v malych vecech.

    Should it be "krasa" (beauty) instead of "krasne"?
  10. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Ano Hanka
    Mate pravdu. Mel by to krasa. Dekuju.
    Krasa must be a noun
    while krasny is the adjective.
  11. Ladis

    Ladis Well-Known Member

    It can be "krása" and also "krásné" (=krásné to něco). It depends on the meaning you want to say ;).
  12. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Yes, 'Krásné...' is also possible but it is a little strange. Maybe 'To krásné...' or 'Vše krásné...'. I understand, Ladis, these first words are self-evident for Czechs and they could be omitted as ellipsis.
  13. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    I would have said it, "Krása se často najde v malých vecech."
  14. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Hey--thanks for all the help and interest in my tag/signature line.

    That final correction sounds very good.
    I translate it as
    "Beauty one often finds/or/is often found in the small things"

    I welcome any other suggestions
  15. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    Actually, I just realized that it should probably be "nachodí" rather than "najde," since "často" indicates repetitive action.
  16. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    No, 'nachodí' is wrong, that's 'walk' or 'cover by walking' :D .

    'Nachází' is relevant imperfective form. But original perfective form is also meaningful.

    Scrimshaw's signature reminds me of one Michalangelo's quotation:

    "Dokonalost spočívá v maličkostech, avšak dokonalost sama není maličkostí."
  17. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    Thanks, wer :oops: . Something about that didn't quite sound right. It's embarrassing how much of my language skills I've forgotten over the years. I had thought that the perfective form was also correct, yet in this case, with the usage of the word "často," I'm not sure I fully understand the difference between "nachodí" and "nachází" in this context.
  18. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    'Nachodit' is derived (by adding prefix 'na-') from 'chodit'.

    'Nacházet' is derived (as imperfective form) from najít.

    Nachodili jsme 30 km. = We covered by walking 30 km.
    Člověk se hodně nachodí ~ It takes a lot of walking
  19. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    Sorry, wer. I must be really out to lunch today. I understood the "nahodit" vs. "nacházet" thing. That was initially just a dumb mistake on my part. What I meant to say was that I didn't understand the difference between "najde" and "nachází" in the context given. I understand the difference between imperfective and perfective, but usually when using repetive actions (e.g. with "často") the imperfective is considered appropriate.

    (Sorry for the confusion--I'm trying to finish writing my Ph.D. thesis in the next couple of weeks, so my head's not entirely screwed on straight right now :? ).
  20. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Why do you think you're out to lunch today. Maybe it was my mistake - I have often problems to understand English. :wink:

    It is difficult to explain difference between 'Krása se často najde...' a 'Krása se často nachází...' - not only because of perfective/imperfective form but also because of reflexive (resp passive) form.

    'Často' could mean repeatedly but also frequently (commonly, ordinarily, usually, plenteously, abundantly) - so it is not inevitable to use 'nacházet'.

    Passive (especially reflexive) form is also used to describe something usual (in French/German pronoun 'on'/'man' is used in similar way) or possible.

    'Krása se často najde...' means approximately 'It is usual (or frequently possible) to find beauty...'

    'Krása se často nachází...' means approximately 'Beauty is often (repeatedly) found...'

    najít se - be found, appear, occur, emerge, come along, be available,...

    nacházet se - 1) all meaning of 'najít se' with accentuated frequency 2) be located/ situated, lie, be to be found
    BTW What is your thesis about? I suppose it is physics, but what exactly?

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