(I'm going to rant a bit in defense of myself on this one... I can't stand this slight bigotry.) I'm agnostic (a form of Atheism as you might know) and I beg to ask, "what am I ignorant of?" I have read the Qur'an several times to learn of the Muslim faith. I have read the Bible and skimmed it countless times. I have read The Book of Mormon. I have many Asian friends who were raised Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh, and Animist, and have quite a second hand knowledge of each. I'm a historian and know of the ancient religions of the Romans, Greeks, Persians, and Egyptions. "What am I ignorant of?" In my "opinion," there is a god. Everyone trying to say exactly how it looks and how it acts is the wrong path however. We cannot know what god is, because we cannot use our senses to find this ultimate truth. We simply don't know our ultimate purpose on the Earth and must create our own morality and self-concept. "Picking" an image of god is side-stepping logic and reason, and limits the application of our intelligence. Christians, Muslims, and Sikhs are all taught their religion as the truth, or choose their religion for cultural reasons. A Christian would not convert to Cannibalisms because it is against the Christian's basic raised culture, however that Christian might convert from Anglican to Baptist because one fits that Christian's world view better over the other. (All in my opinion of course.) The Agnostic vs. the God fearing man on abortion: God fearing man's Method: "I will refer to my Bible, and if I find not the answer, I will ask my priest." God fearing man's Conclussion: "Every person has a soul, and God intended for a child to be born by the fact that conception occured and thus a soul placed. I am a protestant I must announce, and I did not have to ask my priest for such knowledge. The Bible says "Did not He who made me in the womb make him, And the same one fashion us in the womb? (Job 31:15)" Obviously, if God has hand in making us in the womb, it is by His intent that we are given life. If that life is taken away by another, it trully is murder." Conversely: The Agnostic's Method: "I will use my reasonable and logical methods, with the fact that a god, or many gods, may exist, to find my answer." The Agnostic's Conclussion: "We cannot know rightfully when the soul enters the human body, or even if the "soul," as in a consciousness, exists in others. Considering the "I think, therefore I am" (Descartes) concept being a self-centered model not recognizing those around you, it greatly limits considering souls in others. Yet, for this topic to be considered, we must assume that the soul exists in others or else abortion as a moral question is irrelevent. So, let us begin. A soul may be put in at conception, or it may not be. These are the only two modes for the question. Well, what would prove a soul being at conception? Brain activity, movement, and expression of consciousness might prove it, yet there is nothing but cells in the early developments. Even then, is biology the only house for the spirit and consciousness? Any afterlife theory surely promotes the idea of the consciousness seperate from the mortal body. If the soul is seperate from the body, it might enter at any time! Well, this all adds up. It adds up to nothing. Considering that god is the true arbitrater of souls, could god not just give us our souls at birth directly? How would we know? Aw, but there is the crux again. "How would we know?" Simply put, "we can't." Is the consciousness that youthful day between 2 and 4 that we all finally have our first memories, or is it the "twinkle in thine eye" when mother first swoons over the father??? We are unable to know. Either of the two modes on the subject leads to dead ends. So what now? Well, one can choose to accept the conception as the creation of another being, or one can choose to not accept it. That is the simple mater-of-fact truth. It must come down to one's personal choice based on one's own life concept. As for me, I believe... (and then every Agnostic rationalizes their opinion differently.)" Personally, I choose to believe that a child developes a consciousness at around 2 years old, and before that their "id" is not developed. This explains why no one remembers birth or their first birthday for instance. So for me, and for many other reasons which I can speak on for hours, abortion is not an absolute "right," but acceptable. Furthermore, can a state reasonably keep women from abortions that they would carry out themselves anyway? Can a state make abortions for rape/medical cases legal and economic/social cases illegal? Courts could not handle the load, and I promise that before most rape or medical cases come to court, birth or miscarriage will have occured. Abortion cannot be regulated is thus relegated to simply a moral question. If one believes God does not want abortions, then abortions are wrong. If one does not believe in a god, then abortions are a life choice. Now, why did I ramble? I rambled because I use logic and reason to govern my life. Or at least I try. I do not depend on creating a god that suits me. I assume that god maybe good, or evil, but I might never know the truth. So why dwell? Well, these are pressing matters of the now that interest me. And what is life but one passing interest to the next? It is curiousity that makes us rise to the next morning, and thus why the broken hearted or bleak end up wilting away physically as well as mentally. We are undividely attatched to furthering our intellect and ego. I do not suddenly pray to a god I do not know. Should I suddenly break down and cry to your God, or to one of the many god's of Greece? Please clarify? Furthermore, I am not ignorant. Please do not accuse me of such. Paradoxially, I cannot be ignorant of something that does not exist. If it does exist, I only know it as much as you do, and that means only understanding that fact that a god does exist, and nothing more, of which ignorance is only the question of recognizing god's existence. Yet, there is no empirical proof either of us can present to either side. Hence, no answer. Hence, no ignorance of god to either of us, and no knowledge either. "A" No "Gnostic" Knowledge "The only thing I know is that I know nothing." Keep your head in the book CU. You'll get it.