when should which case be used.

Discussion in 'Grammar & Pronunciation' started by will2466, Jun 30, 2006.

  1. will2466

    will2466 Member

    ok . . . so I've got a pretty good hold on case endings now (memorized and what not), but I now i need to understand, which case am I supposed to use when. It's easy to remember with the prepositions . . . but what about without?

    Let's say I want to say "That is the home of my mother." the word "home" should be in accusative? and then I just put "my mother" into genitive and that's it?
    (excuse the lack of accents . . . I'm in a bit of a hurry)

    Ten je dum me matky.


    Should I use dative case for the most part with verbs that have a "built in" to or for in english? i.e "I gave to the kitten a present", or "I gave (to) her a present". and "a present" would again be a direct object and therefore accusative?

    Dal jsem koteti darek.
    Dal jsem ji darek.


    lastly there's instrumental. Outside of prepositions, I'm completely lost on when to use instrumental. Help. The only thing I can think of is a line of music I have that goes

    Jsem doma . . . a jdu cestou starou.

    I am guessing that that means exactly, I walk "by means of" or "along" an old path, where as if I used accusative (cestu starou), I'd be saying I walk the old path.

    Is all of the above correct, or completely sensless.[/code]
     
  2. will2466

    will2466 Member

    p.s. thank you for the help.

    Will
     
  3. Zeisig

    Zeisig Well-Known Member

    It is nearly correct.

    To je dům (nom.) mé matky (gen.).

    Dal jsem kotěti (dat.) dárek (acc.).
    Dal jsem jí (dat.) dárek (acc.).

    . . . a jdu cestou starou (instr.).
     
  4. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    will2466, it's the same as in English. Use the nominative case after the verb "to be" (Ex: "It is I" is correct grammatically, rather than "It is me," even though colloquially the second is heard more often.)
     
  5. Wicker808

    Wicker808 Well-Known Member

    "It is I?" Are you kidding? No one talks like that. Are you a grammatical prescriptivist?

    will2466, the answer to your question is that case of nouns is determined according to the following rules:

    1. If the noun is the object of a preposition, it should be in the case required by that preposition.
    2. If the noun is the possessor in a possessive relationship, it should be in the genitive case.
    3. Nouns used as terms of address should be in the vocative case.
    4. The verb requires particular cases depending on the noun's relationship to the verb.
    5. Other cases are required by idiom.

    The fouth rule is the most complicated. For most verbs, the subject will be in the nominative, the direct object in accusative, and the indirect object in dative. Some verbs don't follow this rule, though, such as pomoct, which takes a direct object in dative, or pohrdat, which takes a direct object in instrumental. These exceptions need to be memorized. Also, the verb být, to be, takes its second substantive usually in nominative, sometimes in instrumental, but never in accusative.

    You asked specifically about the instrumental case. When instrumental is not required by a preposition or by a verb, it often expresses means, a tool, a language, a method, or a path in which the verb is done. It does not necessarily translate easily to English. Read Czech texts and note how they use instrumental. Eventually you'll understand what role it plays.

    The fifth point on the list above is also somewhat complicated. This is a rule that includes all uses of case outside of the preceding rules. Certain expressions require cases determined by idiom. Particularly expressions of time, when not accompanied by a preposition, are often in accusative ("Bydlím tady tři let"), genitive ("Uvidíme se pátého července"), or instrumental ("Odletím už začátkem příštího měsíce"). The rules are complicated and have been summarized elsewhere.
     
  6. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    Sorry, there is a typo here - correct is Bydlím tady tři léta or tři roky.
    Or else Bydlím tady od tří let .
     
  7. Wicker808

    Wicker808 Well-Known Member

    Hups. Thank you Jana.
     
  8. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    I never said that I spoke like that. I just said that it was grammatically correct (which is true). I didn't think that that rule was so obscure. I had assumed that most people in the U.S. learn correct grammar, even if they don't use it.
     
  9. LaRusski

    LaRusski Active Member

    The word "home" should be in the nominative case, since "home" and "that is" refer to the same object and are both the subject of the sentence. "of my mother" should be in the genitive. Go to www.locallingo.com. They explain when to use each case when.
     

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