Tim Whipple had something in one of his books where he claimed that the phrase "Velvet Revolution" is frowned upon by Czechs because it implies that agents provocateur from the USSR were really responsible for things coming to a head- I'm thinking of the "Martin Smid" incident, if that rings a bell for anybody, as an example. He claims the term "Events of November" is acceptable, and that the former "Velvet" business is hurtful to Czechs since it brings up memories of Dubcek locked away in August of '68 in the USSR and Benes banned from the table at Munich. True or not true? When I visit I don't want to have people spitting in my soup, so I'm brushing up on being a useful visitor- from Claire Sterling's book, quoting a taxi cab driver who lets him have it for asking so many questions about Masaryk: "Do you know Zizska? Do you know Comenius? What do you know about our history?" I'm trying to do my best. Plus, the subject is just endlessly fascinating. Thanks.
Do you know, you may be right? I don't know and I haven't thought about it before but now you mention it, you don't see the phrase in newspaper articles. I think I remember seeing things like "the November revolution." I've never used it because until recently I could never remember the word in Czech! I'll be interested to hear what Czechs have to say about it.
The "Velvet Revolution" is still being used, although it's true it's being frowned upon by many people and it's used mostly by media, not by Czech people in conversations. People don't have problems with the word "velvet" (it's also sometimes used in "Velvet Divorce" referring to the peaceful splitting of Czechoslovakia in 1993), it's the "revolution" part we have problems with. Clearly it was no revolution and it's true that more and more people think the so-called "revolution" was just a scam, orchestrated by KGB/STB/CIA/whoever acting together with Havel's group. I also don't see any relations of "velvet" and 1938 or 1968 events and I doubt other Czechs do. I've never heard "November revolution" used in relation to events happening in November of 1989 (we usually use the Czech equivalent of "Events of November 1989" - "udalosti listopadu 1989"). You know, for (older) Czechs, November revolution is related to the event that happened in Russia on 7th November, 1917 ("Velka Rijnova Socialisticka Revoluce", the October/November issue is because of Russia using different calendar at that time).
Yes, you're right. That makes sense - it couldn't have been November revolution I've seen although I have seen it without the year because I remember thinking it's a good job everyone knows which November they're talking about. I will pay more attention next time I see it referred to.
The phrase is often ridiculed because a lot of Czechs are critical to the events of November 1989. We call it "Plyšák" (from plyš = plush), for example. But I don't think it is offensive for Czechs. Why should it be? Why don't we use the term as frequently as foreigners? Simply because it is not Czech term at all. It is a name invented by Western journalists afterwards. The phrase prevailed totally in all languages except Czech and Slovak, since we named the events before the term was imported. And the same applies for Velvet divorce. While a lot of people are critical to the 1989 overthrow, only a few people buy the story about revolution directed by the Soviets. It's classical conspiracy theory. Of course, as anywhere else, these people are very active on Internet. The Martin Šmíd incident was action of Czech secret police and its impact is generally overrated by foreigners. It was quickly declared untrue by Czech media, only the foreign media reacted slowly. There is no link to the 1938 events, but there is a link to the 1939 events. The Velvet Revolution started by student procession to commemorate the Nazi reprisals against Czech students in 1939. That's why the crackdown against the students initiated quickly a spontaneous mass demonstration. The commies acted exactly as the Nazis. There is also an obvious link to the Prague Spring (another imported term, by the way), but it is not hurtful for Czechs. The crowds on the Wenceslas Square were first addressed by Václav Havel and his Civic forum (OF). Therefore he became the leader of the "revolution". But with a short delay the commies dethroned by the 1968 invasion emerged. They were represented by Dubček. It was obvious that the communist regime is over and thus both factions started to fight for power. The public was in favor of Dubček, but the crowds were not aware of what was happening. Both Havel and Dubček posed in public as allies. Václav Havel overcame Dubček by making aggreement with the opportunist faction of ruling communists represented by Marián Čalfa. Havel supported Čalfa as Prime Minister (He was Slovak, and thus the president was supposed to be Czech. Dubček was Slovak.) and Čalfa made the communistic parliament to elect Havel for President. Havel made a lot of concessions to the commies (no banning of the communistic party, government coalition with commies...). The last opposition of Dubček was silenced by Havel's false promises to resign after the first democratic election. This is the way Havel came to the power. Simoultaneously with the dispute between Havel and Dubček another dispute emerged - the economical reform. The first Perestroika-like plan of economical reform was presented by Waltr Komárek. He was quickly opposed by pro-free-market economs represented by Václav Klaus. Komárek as a commie was a natural ally of Dubček. And thus Klaus made an alliance with Havel. Klaus won this minor dispute by discrediting the opponent plan in public as too communist. But the power was grabbed by Havel and Klaus was thus limited in his plans. This started the final match between Havel and Klaus. Klaus started a political compaign in American style attracting the public support for his reform. He was underestimated by Havel who as the leader of revolution felt certain of electoral success. Step by step, Klaus assumed the power from Havel, first he became chairman of the Havel's OF, than he enforced first parts of his reform in the government of the OF from the position of minister of the state treasury, than he started transformation of the OF into standard political party which resulted in spliting of the OF into Civic Democratic Party led by Klaus and Civic Movement consisting of all his opponents, and finally he won unambiguously the 1992 election and became Prime Minister. The dispute between Klaus and Havel was not over, in fact it still affects the Czech politics, but the "revolution" was definitelly over with the 1992 election. Let's make a summary: 1) Hard commies are dissatisfied because the communistic regime is over. 2) The "Sixtyeighters" are dissatisfied because they were crushed by Havel. 3) Havel and his supporters are dissatisfied because they were crushed by Klaus. 4) Klaus and his supporters are dissatisfied because the Klaus's plans were slowned down by the initial phasis of Havel's rule and because of following Havel's attempts to remove Klaus from politics. 5) Other groups which were not active in the process (e.g. the socialists) are dissatisfied because they were not active in the process. 6) The communist opportunist around Čalfa profited in the process at minimal costs. So, no wonder nobody likes it!
Wer, you certainly answered my question. There is a lot of information that is simply not available in the States, meaning in English. I've read interviews with Klaus and I must say he sounds like a Milton Friedman style extremist. I am, personally, a Leftist and not thrilled with unregulated capitalism. But I certainly can see how that position would have been attractive to CZ citizens in that era. Skvorecky gave a speech to a bunch of American Leftists once ("fellow travellers" might be better a description, this is not something I ascribe to) where he sucked the air completely out of the room by endorsing liberal democracy, and doing so very forcefully. He was never invited back by the litterati. This has been a big problem with the American Left for many years. Very tolerant, so long as you completely agree with their opinions. Thank you most sincerely for your mini-essay. I feel much more confident in my own opinions knowing what an actual Czech thinks. This has been far more helpful than you would ever know.
I've heard that in accordance with '48- "putsch" is what it seems to mean. '89 was certainly no putsch. I think the use of "plush" is very, very interesting though- a great example of non-native speakers assuming all synonyms are equally weighted. Also, had no idea "Prague Spring" was an import. A lot of English literature on the subject is woefully incomplete and out of date.
Well, if the phrase Prague Spring was an import, then the country has cleverly turned it to their advantage. All my more musical friends in the UK want to come over to stay during the Prague Spring music festival!
You are right, and I see it as a big problem for the Czech Republic. Or, more precisely, I'm worried by the bias of the information in all issues regarding the Czech countries. He is Friedman's best pupil among politicians according to Friedman himself :wink:. But in fact he tends more to the Austrian School. But this matters as long as we want to discuss the economical transformation or recent politics. For the process of the political transformation the strict parliamentarianism of Klaus was more important. He resuscitated the term "political party" and enforced the quick adoption of the Western political system based on it. I never said we don't use the term "Sametová revoluce". We use it quite commonly, but the different ways to refer to it are common as well. And I have to correct my previous statement, the term "Velvet Revolution" is from Western media, but as I found recently, it was a Czech journalist who invented it. "Převrat" means "overturn/changeover", it's a neutral word for any radical change. Yes, you could call it "převrat", in fact it is quite common, but it must be clear from the context what "převrat" do you mean. We often refer to it as "Listopad (89)" (= November, notice it is capitalized in Czech unlike the standard names of months). The phrase "před Listopadem" is commonly understood as "under communism". Yes, now I see you use it as "luxury" in English. That is not the way it is understood in Czech. For us it is just a soft material (like velvet). The festival and the 1968 events are unrelated.
Polednikova wrote: Well, if the phrase Prague Spring was an import, then the country has cleverly turned it to their advantage. All my more musical friends in the UK want to come over to stay during the Prague Spring music festival! The festival and the 1968 events are unrelated. You and I may know that but the good folk in London who like classical music and want the chance to see concerts at half the price they would pay at home London don't!
Between the discounted Dvorak, the stellar beer and just the beauty of the city itself, I don't know how you people get any work done living there. I'd call off everyday. "Sorry, Boss- I've got a bad case of Prague. Yes, it's fatal. I'll have this ailment 'till I die. Thank god!"
That reminds me of the time the Red Army Ensemble played in Manchester not long after the Soviet invasion and my father and the other Czechs living in the North West organised a demonstration outside the theatre. I remember carrying a banner saying "The Czechs didn't have to pay to see the Red Army."
I don't know how to tell you this, TReady, but after twenty five years of 10/12 hour days spent at the coal face of British politics, I DON'T WORK!!! And it's even better than sounds, especially in Prague!
When I first read this, I thought you meant Stella Artois beer, which is not beer at all, or not as we know it, Spock. However, it is the biggest selling beer in the UK, which doesn't say much for Britons' idea of what makes a good beer. And for some reason, it's the only beer sold at Kino Atlas, near Florenc. As Kino Atlas is something of an arty cinema, I do hope that Stella isn't thought to be cool by those with a theatrical bent! PS Apologies for so many comments - even I'm fed up of my photo by now!
No comments on my spelling please- remember, I'm an American! Stella is entering this market in a big way here- what awful beer! I'm in Seattle, and I humbly offer that we make some of the best in the world. But there is still only one Pilsener. ESB's and IPA's are two of the popular styles here- please thank the English for discovering over-hopped beer!
