Imperfective -> Perfective

Discussion in 'Grammar & Pronunciation' started by Kikko, Mar 22, 2003.

  1. Kikko

    Kikko Well-Known Member

    Hello guys,

    So finally I'm into imperfective/perfective. I already know the difference between the 2 aspects.

    I've read that an imperfective verb can have more than one perfective [​IMG]

    My grammar says "Unfortunately there's no rule as to which prefix is used with any given verb to form the perfective of corresponding meaning. Hence the correct prefix must be learned..." [​IMG]


    My questions are:

    1) Is there a way to know if a verb is perfective or imperfective?

    2) If there's no rule which tells me how to make the perfective, is there some hint or something which may help (for exaple: the most of verb in -avat makes perfective in -at, something like that)

    3) What aspect is given by dictionaries?

    4) Is there a book which shows imperfective verbs and the corresponding perfective?

    Thanx [​IMG]
     
  2. Kikko

    Kikko Well-Known Member

    nevermind it's done
     
  3. Lorenzo

    Lorenzo Well-Known Member

    Hi [​IMG]

    Kikko's posts have made me curious...

    I didn't know there could be more than one perfective form for one verb until I bumped into "skončit" that with "ukončit" gives me two possibile options for the perfective form of "končit"...

    What's the difference between the two?

    How would people react in the metro if the announcement went "Skončite výstup a nástup dveře se zavírají" instead of the familiar "Ukončete version"? [​IMG]

    Diky moc!

    Lorenzo
     
  4. Dana

    Dana Well-Known Member

    I can see we're back into the wonderful subtleties of the Czech language. Now how about adding "zakončit" to the bunch? [​IMG]

    1) The verb "skončit" is probably the most neutral of the three. It simply means "to end" and the action of ending is quick and abrupt.

    "Film skončil v deset hodin." - The movie ended at 10 o'clock.

    2) The verb "ukončit" means "to bring to an end", so you're placing more emphasis on the process of ending. The action of ending is not as quick as in "skončit". That is why

    "Ukončete výstup a nástup, dveře se zavírají." - literally "finish the process of getting off and on..."

    The verb "skončete" would not really work here because it sounds too abrupt. A movie can (actually must) "skončit", while a process/procedure often needs "ukončit".

    3) The verb "zakončit" means "to formally conclude" (e.g. a speech) or "to complete", usually "by doing something".

    "Ředitel zakončil svůj projev poděkováním všem přítomným." - The director concluded his speech by thanking all those present.
     
  5. Kikko

    Kikko Well-Known Member

    Ciao Lorenzo,
    So, you went into prefixes too [​IMG]

    Think that jit can have 16 prefixes!! [​IMG] prijit, odejit, vyjit, zajit, dojit, and so on... (similar meanings, but different)

    I've learned all the meanings a prefix can give to the imperfective...
    I'm a little crazy. Anyway...

    S-
    + direction from top down (Sešel dolů - He came down)
    + direction toward the middle (Sejdeme se zítra - We will gather tomorrow)
    + action with negative impact (Prohrát, propít - loose, drink away all your money)

    As Dana said u- means to conclude an action, accomplish smt...
    Ušli jsme 10 km - We walked 10 km

    This action concluded may also be negative
    Upil se k smrti - He drank himself to death

    U- may also give meaning of

    + direction away from smt (Ujel nám autobus - We missed the bus (lit. the bus ran away from us))
    + gain by activity (Ušetřit peníze - Save money)
    + subtract (Ubrat na vázet - Loose weight)

    Also consider that the prefix do has the meaning to conclude an activity Dočetl knihu - He finished reading the book

    Well, a little messy this prefixes thing, isnt it?

    [This message has been edited by Kikko (edited May 12, 2003).]
     
  6. Kikko

    Kikko Well-Known Member

    Dana I had a look in the dictionary for kupovat and nakupovat (then kupovat + prefix na).
    It gives the same meaning of to shop.
    If so, then why adding a prefix?

    I would translate nakupovat with to go into shopping.

    Is this right?

    [This message has been edited by Kikko (edited May 15, 2003).]
     
  7. Dana

    Dana Well-Known Member

    Hi Kikko,

    there is a difference in meaning between "kupovat" and "nakupovat".

    "kupovat" needs an object (in the accusative) and means:

    - "to be buying something" repeatedly, regularly, etc.
    "Ten časopis kupuji každý týden." - I buy that magazine every week.

    - "to be in the process of buying something"
    "Novákovi kupují dům." - The Novaks are buying a house. (they are in the process of buying a house - they need to find one first, then do the paperwork, etc.)

    "nakupovat" does not need an object (but can have one) and means:

    - "to shop", "to be shopping" (no object)
    "Eva ráda nakupuje." - Eva likes to shop.
    "Eva šla nakupovat." - Eva went shopping.
    "Nakupujeme na vánoce." - We're shopping for Christmas.

    - "to shop for..." (with an object, sometimes used instead of "kupovat" but is less common)
    "Potraviny nakupujeme v samoobsluze." - We shop for groceries in the supermarket.
     
  8. Lorenzo

    Lorenzo Well-Known Member

    Hi Dana and Kikko!

    Thank you for your replies and for introducing me to the articulate world of prefixes [​IMG]

    Lorenzo
     
  9. rsalc1

    rsalc1 Well-Known Member

    Hi folks,
    Some time ago Kikko asked the four questions quoted above.
    If these questions have already been answered, could someone please point me in the right direction? :wink:
    If they have not been answered in this Forum, would someone be kind enough to answer them?

    Díky.
     
  10. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    In answer to Kikko's number 3 and 4, most good dictionaries will give both the imperfective and perfective aspects of a verb. My dictionary (by Ivan Poldauf at al., ISBN# 80-04-23997-8 ) does, to give one example, albeit a fairly dated one (I bought it 10 years ago!).
     

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