líbit se

Discussion in 'Grammar & Pronunciation' started by scrimshaw, Oct 9, 2007.

  1. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    To se mi moc nelíbí.
    What would you say is the best translation?

    I don't like that very much.
    or
    I really(a whole lot) don't like that.

    Prodaváčka chtěla abych si koupil modrá košile, ale mně se moc nelíbil tak jsem odmitl.
    Raději bych kupoval bez útisku.
     
  2. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    The first. If you wanted to emphasize that you really, really didn't like something, you might rearrange the wording:

    Moc se mi to nelíbí

    or else use different words altogether, e.g.:

    Mám nerád
    Nenávidím

    The last two are the ones I've heard most commonly.
     
  3. Eleshar

    Eleshar Well-Known Member

    I concur with the first statement, i.e.: "moc se mi to nelíbí" means "I don't like that very much". But if you meant "I really (a whole lot) don't like that", it would be rather "To se mi vůbec nelíbí" (I don't like that at all)
     
  4. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    Yes, Eleshar's sentence is better. Mine were probably too severe--more of a "hate" than a "don't like" (at least the last two are that way--the first was perhaps a bit contrived and not very natural sounding).
     
  5. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Thanks, that is helpful.

    To mám nerad.
    Mám to rád.
    To se mi vůbec nelíbí. Ne ani trochu?
    Měla jsi ten film rada? Naopak. To jsem nenaviděla. No, to je trochu sílné. Řekla bych, že jsem to neměla rada.

    Rád posloucháš hudbu? Ano, to se mi moc líbí.
    Hudba Nohavice se mi líbí nejvíc.
     
  6. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    No, the problem is somewhere else. You have to negate “moc” to “vůbec” because of the double negation.
    Scrimshaw, are you sure of the difference between “mít rád” and “líbit se”?
     
  7. Eleshar

    Eleshar Well-Known Member

    "mít nerad" is not used very often... much more is used "nemám rád"... word "nerad" is, however, used in sentences like "nerad čtu" (I do not like to read), "nerad pracuji", etc. where they serve as so called "doplněk", which is part of speech syntactically tied to both subject (or object) and to predicate.
     
  8. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    I have a vague feel for the difference between the two.
    But I'm sure I often use them inappropriately.

    Líbit se, is more to express your feelings about something

    Mít rád, is to say you like something, or like doing something

    You are right. I am not really clear on the difference.


    Nerad plus verb, but
    Not liking something(a noun) Negative attaches to verb.
    To nemám rád.

    Hope I got it right.
     
  9. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    Yes, of course. That explains why it sounded a little funny to me. I suppose it should have sounded "funnier" to me, but I guess I've forgotten way too much Czech grammar/vocabulary in the past decade. :oops: Scrimshaw, you should take my comments with a grain of salt. I'm really rusty.
    I agree. Now that I think about it, however, I recall hearing that they don't mean exactly the same thing, that "mít nerad" generally is considered somewhat stronger than "nemít rad." Is this true?
     
  10. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Yes, I suppose it should be easy understandable for physicist :wink: because it’s quite logical, in Czech we never negate the auxiliaries - we negate the word with the meaning we wan’t to negate:

    mít rád     … to have positive attitude
    mít nerad … to have negative attitude
    nemít rád … not to have positive attitude (~ to have negative or ambivalent attitude)
     
  11. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Ne, ne. Není třeba abych to vzal s kus sůlu.
    Cením si všechny rada.

    Nerad poslouchám ten styl hudby.
    Nelíbí se mi, protože zní jako spoustu nepřijemné zvuk.
    Radějí bych poslechl lidovou hudbu.
    Košile, které Anna měla na sobě včera, moc se líbil mé sestře.
    Pravě ted' je v obchodního domu u řeky. Kupuji si jedno stejně jako to.
     
  12. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    Thank goodness, something is logical in Czech! :wink:

    Díky za podporu!
     
  13. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    aha

    Nemám to rád.
    more severe
    Mám to nerad.....I dislike it.
     
  14. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Vzít něco se zrnkem soli.
    Jsem zvedav na to, co je český ekvivalent.

    Prosím, a děkuji za tvé podporu taky. :wink:
     
  15. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Ha ha :twisted:, Czech is much more logical than English :wink:, see this:

    No cat has eight tails.
    A cat has one tail more than no cat.
    Therefore, a cat has nine tails.

    Žádná kočka nemá osm ocasů.
    Jedna kočka má o jeden ocas více než žádná kočka.
    Tudíž, jedna kočka nemá devět ocasů.

    No, there is no such idiom in Czech.

      zrnko soli = a grain of sol
    špetka soli = a pinch of sol

    Possibly:

    brát s rezervou
    nebrat doslova
     
  16. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Je-li žádná kočka nemá osm očasů a žádná kočka nemá o jeden očas víc než předstíranou osm očasitou kočku, dá se vidět, že žadná kočka nemá devět očasy. Ledaže to je kočka devětu očasů.(Cat of nine tails... a type of plant that grows near the water)

    Ouch :shock: :shock: , that one hurt. It will take some time to recover from that one.

    Tudíž, jedna kočka nemá devět ocasů.
    OK, you got me, I have no idea why there is a negative there.

    Vzal jsem to, co mi řekli s velkém zrnkem solí.
     
  17. fabik317

    fabik317 Well-Known Member

    :)
    that reminded me of this:

    věta: existuje kůň s třinácti nohama.

    důkaz: nechť jsou všichni koně obarveni dvěma různými barvami tak, že každý kůň s třinácti nohama má modrou barvu a každý kůň s jiným počtem nohou nějakou jinou. Vyberme náhodně 2 koně. Má-li jeden z nich modrou barvu, je důkaz proveden. Nemá-li ani jeden z nich modrou barvu, znamená to, že mají oba koně stejnou barvu a zároveň každý jinou, což je rozpor.
     
  18. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Yes, I was hoping so! :twisted: :twisted:
    No cat has eight tails.
    A cat has one tail more than no cat.
    Therefore, a cat has nine tails.

    Žádná kočka ne osm ocasů.
    Jedna kočka má o jeden ocas více než žádná kočka.
    Tudíž, jedna kočka ne devět ocasů.

    I hope it’s clear now and you can concetrate on fabik’s horse coloring theorem. :twisted:
     
  19. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    :lol: Funny, but as my correction above points out, it is contrived. When enumerating "zero" of something, it is proper in English to use the plural, not singular (of course, the number zero is neither singular nor plural, but this is the standard convention in English). Using the singular implies that such thing doesn't exist.

    Ex.:
    One cat has one tail, but no (zero) cats have no (zero) tails.
    Cats have one tail, but no cat has no tail. [implies such a thing doesn't exist] (and yes, I know about Manx cats)

    In other words:
    no cat = žadná kočka (i.e. there doesn't exist such a cat)
    no cats = 0 koček


    In principle, mathematically, it would be more proper to say:
    One cat has one tail more than none.
    or
    One cat has one tail more than zero cats.

    Perhaps this is true of the Czech variant as well?
     
  20. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Optimally, the natural languages should be banned at all in mathematics. :twisted:

    No, no, it’s a little different. The idea of non-existence is expressed using the second negation in the double negation (i.e. it is separated from the idea of empty set). The second sentence is correct in Czech.

    Well, all the sentences are true and grammatically correct in Czech, only the line of reasoning is a sophism. In fact, the first two sentences imply only that there does not exist an empty set of cats having seven tails in total (resp for every natural number k there does not exist a set of cats with exactly k elements having 7+k tails in total :twisted:).

    žádná kočka ~ empty set of cats

    “žádná kočka” + negative verb = there doesn't exist such a cat

    And btw:

    žádné kočky = no types/kinds of cats
     

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