Genitive Plural Neutral

Discussion in 'Grammar & Pronunciation' started by Ani, Mar 31, 2004.

  1. Ani

    Ani Well-Known Member

    Ahoj!

    Can anyone help me with this please:

    I've noticed that in the Neutral Genitive Plural ending in 'o', model mesto this becomes mest in plural, then we have okno=oken, divadlo=divadel, tricko=tricek, so by this reasoning shouldn't mesto become meset? Is there a reason or are they exceptions?

    Dekuji za pomoc:)

    Ani
     
  2. Bohaemus

    Bohaemus Well-Known Member

    It is the same as for the feminine a-stem nouns (nom.sg.-gen.pl.: ryba-ryb, hvězda-hvězd, kostka-kostek). It depends on the stem ending.

    a) the stems without consonant clusters at their end need no inserted -e- :

    (nom.sg.-gen.pl.)

    fem. kniha-knih, voda-vod, straka-strak
    neutr. kolo-kol, pivo-piv, víno-vín

    b) some consonant clusters also need no -e- :

    -st- kasta-kast, pasta-past, město-měst, místo-míst, těsto-těst
    -zd- hvězda-hvězd, hnízdo-hnízd
    -nt- plenta-plent, konto-kont
    -nd- panda-pand, rondo-rond
    -ld- halda-hald, saldo-sald
    -lt- malta-malt, salto-salt
    -rz- burza-burz, torzo-torz

    ... and others (it is difficile for Czechs to find them all).

    c) vast majority of the consonant clusters requires the inserted (mobile) -e-:

    -tk- matka-matek, sítko-sítek
    -kn- lokna-loken, okno-oken
    -str- (-nstr-) kostra-koster, monstrum-monster (neutr.)
    -zdr- pouzdro-pouzder

    ... and many others.
     
  3. Ani

    Ani Well-Known Member

    As always Bohaemus, thank you very much for your help:) I have printed your reply and will study it in detail.
    Ani
     
  4. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    I think you can tell the difference (at least in most cases) between the two cases for consonant cluster endings just by judging how difficult it is to end a word on the given cluster, i.e. "kostk" is very difficult to say, so "kostek" is more natural, where as "kast" is more natural (no "e" required). Of course, when speaking about consonant blends in the Czech language, "difficult" is a relative word. :)
     
  5. Bohaemus

    Bohaemus Well-Known Member

    You're right, but it isn't so simple. There are some exceptions. Take into consideration the following two words:

    mzda - gen. pl. mezd
    and
    msta - gen. pl. mst

    The same structure, but the genitive plural is different.
    Fortunately, msta (= vengeance) is rarely used in plural and can be replaced by pomsta - gen. pl. pomst.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    :? BTW, why 'difficult' : dis + facile gives difficile (at least in the mater linguarum)

    Is there a reason ... ? :wink:
     
  6. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    "difficult", from the Oxford English Dictionary [online]:

    An English formation, of which the ending -cult is not etymologically regular: cf. L. difficil-is, F. difficile. It has been regarded as deduced from the n. difficult-y; and it may have arisen under the joint influence of difficul (see prec.) and difficulty. It appeared earlier than the adoption of difficile from French, which it has also outlived.

    Oxford English Dictionary

    In other words, blame the Romans for the Latin "difficil-is."
     

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