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Eric79PL
Member
Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 18
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 Posted: 06-Nov-09 5:57 |
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| Quote: |
| Koukám na ty tvoje nové fotky a jsou vážně krásný. |
nebo
| Quote: |
| Koukám na ty tvoje nové fotky a jsou moc pěkný |
which one is the best way to write it and I'm not too sure about " ty tvoje nové fotky "
Děkuji Vám za pomoc 
oh yeah before I forget : was does neboť means ? I looked it up and it gave me the word because. Gee I thought it was slang for Nebo  So when do I use neboť instead of protože |
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Alexx
Senior Member
Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 955
Location: Karviná & Praha, Czech Republic
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| Posted: 06-Nov-09 6:25 |
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| Eric79PL wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Koukám na ty tvoje nové fotky a jsou vážně krásný. |
nebo
| Quote: |
| Koukám na ty tvoje nové fotky a jsou moc pěkný |
which one is the best way to write it and I'm not too sure about " ty tvoje nové fotky "
Děkuji Vám za pomoc
oh yeah before I forget : was does neboť means ? I looked it up and it gave me the word because. Gee I thought it was slang for Nebo So when do I use neboť instead of protože |
Both versions are possible, there is no big difference.
I would say "krásné" or "pěkné" (which is standard czech), however "-ý" ending is common and colloquial (fotka is feminine gender, pattern "žena"; krásný (krásná, krásné) is patter mladý (mladá, mladé). Best way to write it is with "-é" no matter which one of those sentences you choose, and no matter what you might here on streets .
in this context:
výžně = really
moc = very
"ty tvoje nové fotky" is perfectly OK
I have never thought about it, but for me "neboť" = "protože", neboť being a slightly bookish. Protože returned four times more results in google search.
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2010 - West of the US (hopefully) |
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TomKQT
Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 36
Location: Frýdek-Místek, Czech Republic
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| Posted: 06-Nov-09 8:14 |
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| Alexx wrote: |
I would say "krásné" or "pěkné" (which is standard czech), however "-ý" ending is common and colloquial |
Saying it's common and colloquial can be a bit confusing.
Maybe common (for some people, other people are disgusted when they hear it), maybe colloquial, but in the first row it's wrong. 
Koukám na ty tvoje/tvé nové fotky a jsou vážně krásné.
Koukám na ty tvoje/tvé nové fotky a jsou moc pěkné.
The first sentence sounds a bit stronger.
Also the meaning can be slightly different, the second version can be used always, but in some situations the first one would sound strange. It's a strong expression of loveliness, I would personaly use it only for photos with something nice on them (flowers, children, puppies etc.) or for really artistic photos. |
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ondras
Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 6
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| Posted: 06-Nov-09 16:35 |
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| TomKQT wrote: |
| Alexx wrote: |
I would say "krásné" or "pěkné" (which is standard czech), however "-ý" ending is common and colloquial |
Saying it's common and colloquial can be a bit confusing.
Maybe common (for some people, other people are disgusted when they hear it), maybe colloquial, but in the first row it's wrong.
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It might be wrong but it is still the ending that is preferred by the most people in the Czech Rep. Even Google returns three times more results for "kresny fotky" than for "krasne fotky".
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say he should use the "-ý" ending, I'm just trying to say that correcting such mistakes is in my opinion rather meaningless. Most of the people who are trying to learn Czech here are doing so because they want to communicate more efficiently with their families and friends and they will probably never be in a situation where the knowledge of the proper standard Czech is required. Not to mention that even many of the native speakers can't use the standard Czech properly (I have to admit that I'm one of them).
btw. Using Czech idiomatic expressions in English is in my opinion far worse . It took me a while to decipher what you meant by "in the first row" . |
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Ctyri koruny
Senior Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 430
Location: Třebič
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| Posted: 06-Nov-09 17:48 |
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| ondras wrote: |
| TomKQT wrote: |
| Alexx wrote: |
I would say "krásné" or "pěkné" (which is standard czech), however "-ý" ending is common and colloquial |
Saying it's common and colloquial can be a bit confusing.
Maybe common (for some people, other people are disgusted when they hear it), maybe colloquial, but in the first row it's wrong.
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It might be wrong but it is still the ending that is preferred by the most people in the Czech Rep. Even Google returns three times more results for "kresny fotky" than for "krasne fotky".
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say he should use the "-ý" ending, I'm just trying to say that correcting such mistakes is in my opinion rather meaningless. Most of the people who are trying to learn Czech here are doing so because they want to communicate more efficiently with their families and friends and they will probably never be in a situation where the knowledge of the proper standard Czech is required. Not to mention that even many of the native speakers can't use the standard Czech properly (I have to admit that I'm one of them).
btw. Using Czech idiomatic expressions in English is in my opinion far worse . It took me a while to decipher what you meant by "in the first row" . |
I've never heard "in the first row" before.
As a learner I would prefer to be told about the mistakes, and that they are used colloquially, because if I sit an exam or have to write an essay in the future I will need to know the difference between standard written and spoken Czech.
It's the same when I teach English, I tell the students what they will hear on the street, just so they'll understand it, but learning every colloquial variant is a lot harder than just learning one standard version.
A good example is Kdybyjsme, most books for learning Czech don't mention it, then the first time I heard it I was like.. what on earth is that... It's good to see it written there and understand it, but not to use it...
and anyway.. you learn Bohemian colloquial endings, then you go to Moravia, and everyone cringes.
(a strange use of the zero conditional, I'm using it because I'm quite sure of my opinion, but of course it would be more proper to use the first conditional "If you learn..." ) |
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ondras
Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 6
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| Posted: 06-Nov-09 22:56 |
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| Ctyri koruny wrote: |
I've never heard "in the first row" before.
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It is from the Czech idiom "v první řadě". The meaning is pretty similar to "In the first place".
| Ctyri koruny wrote: |
As a learner I would prefer to be told about the mistakes, and that they are used colloquially, because if I sit an exam or have to write an essay in the future I will need to know the difference between standard written and spoken Czech.
A good example is Kdybyjsme, most books for learning Czech don't mention it, then the first time I heard it I was like.. what on earth is that... It's good to see it written there and understand it, but not to use it...
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Yep, I realize that there are some people, for example you, who want, for whatever reason, to learn the standard Czech, but the majority just want to improve their communication skills, and for them, it is really not important whether they use pekne fotky or pekny fotky. They should be able to understand both anyway.
| Ctyri koruny wrote: |
It's the same when I teach English, I tell the students what they will hear on the street, just so they'll understand it, but learning every colloquial variant is a lot harder than just learning one standard version.
A good example is Kdybyjsme, most books for learning Czech don't mention it, then the first time I heard it I was like.. what on earth is that... It's good to see it written there and understand it, but not to use it...
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Again, I'm not arguing against learning the standard Czech, I just think that it is not really necessary to correct every single mistake even when the incorrect version is in fact the most used one. Of course, if one wants to be corrected then it is perfectly fine to do so, but otherwise it can be more counterproductive than helpful.
| Ctyri koruny wrote: |
and anyway.. you learn Bohemian colloquial endings, then you go to Moravia, and everyone cringes.
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Well, I cringe (nice word btw ) almost every time I hear the standard Czech (which is not very often) so I guess you really don't have much of a choice here . Of course if you want to take some exams in Czech then you should use the standard Czech, but otherwise it is really only up to each individual to choose which version to use. Anyway, as I said, everyone should be able to understand both the colloquial and the standard Czech. |
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Ctyri koruny
Senior Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 430
Location: Třebič
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| Posted: 07-Nov-09 9:46 |
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| ondras wrote: |
| Ctyri koruny wrote: |
I've never heard "in the first row" before.
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It is from the Czech idiom "v první řadě". The meaning is pretty similar to "In the first place".
| Ctyri koruny wrote: |
As a learner I would prefer to be told about the mistakes, and that they are used colloquially, because if I sit an exam or have to write an essay in the future I will need to know the difference between standard written and spoken Czech.
A good example is Kdybyjsme, most books for learning Czech don't mention it, then the first time I heard it I was like.. what on earth is that... It's good to see it written there and understand it, but not to use it...
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Yep, I realize that there are some people, for example you, who want, for whatever reason, to learn the standard Czech, but the majority just want to improve their communication skills, and for them, it is really not important whether they use pekne fotky or pekny fotky. They should be able to understand both anyway.
| Ctyri koruny wrote: |
It's the same when I teach English, I tell the students what they will hear on the street, just so they'll understand it, but learning every colloquial variant is a lot harder than just learning one standard version.
A good example is Kdybyjsme, most books for learning Czech don't mention it, then the first time I heard it I was like.. what on earth is that... It's good to see it written there and understand it, but not to use it...
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Again, I'm not arguing against learning the standard Czech, I just think that it is not really necessary to correct every single mistake even when the incorrect version is in fact the most used one. Of course, if one wants to be corrected then it is perfectly fine to do so, but otherwise it can be more counterproductive than helpful.
| Ctyri koruny wrote: |
and anyway.. you learn Bohemian colloquial endings, then you go to Moravia, and everyone cringes.
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Well, I cringe (nice word btw ) almost every time I hear the standard Czech (which is not very often) so I guess you really don't have much of a choice here . Of course if you want to take some exams in Czech then you should use the standard Czech, but otherwise it is really only up to each individual to choose which version to use. Anyway, as I said, everyone should be able to understand both the colloquial and the standard Czech. |
Fair enough, but I think the mistakes should be pointed out, but maybe in a different colour ha ha, so we know we can ignore it if we like.
I'm sure not all mistakes are pointed out anyway, as my teacher, with her PHD in Czech, is pained every day to see signs and leaflets all around her with grammatical and spelling errors on them, even Czech books by other PHDs. It seems to me that standard written Czech is for most of us an impossible dream!
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TomKQT
Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 36
Location: Frýdek-Místek, Czech Republic
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| Posted: 07-Nov-09 10:20 |
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| ondras wrote: |
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say he should use the "-ý" ending, I'm just trying to say that correcting such mistakes is in my opinion rather meaningless.
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And this is exactly why I said what I said, just to make sure nobody would understand it this way (you should prefer -ý in spoken language because it's common). That's all. I don't think it's meaningless, this forum is about learning the czech language, isn't it? And after all, it was you who pointed out this mistake, not me I just didn't want it to sound like if this wasn't a mistake at all, which could easily confuse somebody.
| ondras wrote: |
btw. Using Czech idiomatic expressions in English is in my opinion far worse . It took me a while to decipher what you meant by "in the first row" . |
Sorry but I though this forum was about something else. OK, my english is not 100%, I'm Czech and I'm here to help with the Czech language. I think you're Czech too, aren't you? Then I don't understand why it took you some time to decipher it.
And about using Czech idiomatic expressions in English - you'd be surprised how many idiomatic expressions are the same in both languages. I'm a member of one international community and I've heard this (in English) many many times by people from all over the Europe, so I propably started to think it's correct also in English. |
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ondras
Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 6
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| Posted: 07-Nov-09 19:14 |
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| TomKQT wrote: |
And this is exactly why I said what I said, just to make sure nobody would understand it this way (you should prefer -ý in spoken language because it's common). That's all. I don't think it's meaningless, this forum is about learning the czech language, isn't it? And after all, it was you who pointed out this mistake, not me I just didn't want it to sound like if this wasn't a mistake at all, which could easily confuse somebody.
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Well, it was Alexx, not me .
| TomKQT wrote: |
Sorry but I though this forum was about something else. OK, my english is not 100%, I'm Czech and I'm here to help with the Czech language. I think you're Czech too, aren't you? Then I don't understand why it took you some time to decipher it.
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Sorry, if my comment sounded like a criticism. I was just trying to point out that mistakes like this should definitely be corrected (regardless of whether they are made in English or in Czech).
And yes, I'm Czech but I usually don't translate English back into Czech in order to understand it, so it took me a while to figure it out. I think, it would be the same the other way around as well (e.g. if someone said "Tahle úloha je kus koláče" then I would be probably rather confused too). |
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TomKQT
Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 36
Location: Frýdek-Místek, Czech Republic
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| Posted: 09-Nov-09 11:21 |
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| ondras wrote: |
Well, it was Alexx, not me .
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Yep, I'm sorry, I noticed this too late.
About the "first row" - in fact I'm really grateful to know it's wrong, I'll try to avoid it from now. It just was quite offtopic
Btw - the correct form is "in the first place", with the same meaning? |
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