Rhymes in English

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Ctyri koruny
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Postby Ctyri koruny » 17-Apr-09 10:15

GlennInFlorida wrote:part of the problem with rhymes is accents..

a lot of people around here pronounce orange sort of like arnč, others pronounce it like arenč or orenč (sort of Czech spelling but the č is not quit right - has more of an English j or jah sound) so finding a rhyme depends on how you say the word in the first place :?


Yes but usually if you pronounce one dipthong or vowel sound in a certain way this is pretty constant, so the words that rhyme are the same, so for example cow and brow rhyme for me just as much as they do for someone with an english accent, but my cat and his mat don't rhyme.

There are a few exceptions, for example if your accent includes a syllabic or rolled R it will sound very different to the english awwww sound they make..
bibax
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Postby bibax » 17-Apr-09 10:16

Deleted.
Last edited by bibax on 17-Apr-09 17:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bibax » 17-Apr-09 17:00

For my Czech ears orange rhymes with finch.

On a tree there is a hungry yellow finch
all he needs is a wild sweet orange.
:?

The orange finch sounds like orinč finč.

I am not able to distinguish the final voiced j (dž) from its voiceless counterpart ch (č), not to say to pronounce it correctly. When I am trying to pronounce e.g. hedge correctly, the result is always hedger (a schwa at the end).
scrimshaw
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Postby scrimshaw » 17-Apr-09 18:50

Čtyři Koruny....cat and mat rhyme perfectly :D So maybe what Glenn said makes sense. It's according to how we pronounce things

Sorry Bibax......orange and finch do not rhyme

To me...when I say and here the word orange, the orn sound is emphasized and the dž sound at the end just trails off, heard but not emphasized.
So the dž sound is not what makes the rhyme.
I think in czech phonetics it would be pronounced ORNdž.
Jsem zvědav, jak by to vypadalo, kdybych byl přivolávačem deště. Jak by to vypadalo, kdybych uměl přivolat déšt'?
Mám pocit ale, že se to bohužel nikdy nedozvím.
bibax
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Postby bibax » 17-Apr-09 21:25

4 Kč has meant that (American) cat and (British) mat don't rhyme. This means that (American) cat and (British) cat don't rhyme as well. Consequence: an American singer and a British singer cannot sing a duet. :shock:

We learned the British (or BBC) variant of the English pronunciation.

Without ANY wovel between R and N the orange would be pronounced o:ndž in the British pronunciation, like ornament is pronounced o:n@m@nt (without any R !!).

But there IS a wovel between R and N.

Our Czech dictionaries say:

orange orindž (ends in -indž)
finch finč (ends in -inč)

The only difference is the voiceness (dž vs. č). But in the expression orange finch I am not able to distinguish dž from č.

Now I have tried slovnik.seznam.cz :

orange is pronouced or@ndž, but oranges is (are) pronounced orindžiz.

Can you confirm this?

N.B.
o: = long o (like in wall); @ = schwa/mixed vowel; = j (like in job); č = ch (like in chip); the stress is always on the first syllable;
scrimshaw
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Postby scrimshaw » 17-Apr-09 23:16

Maybe this will help....even though it looks like it could be broken into syllables...it is not
some might say or-inge
but it mostly pronounced altogether with no stops or pauses
Remember this....the A is silent...not pronounced.

ORNdž...the dž sound is exactly the same as first (or last ge) in the name
George

That brings to mind this
try saying 'Blow the horn George'

and then eliminate the stop between orn and G

american cat and english cat don't rhyme
There is a saying, the only thing that separates us (Great Britain and the U.S.) is our common language.

In america we use a short 'a' in cat

Are you familiar with this? In our english
Each vowel has two distinct sounds....a long....and a short
fat, cat, slap, mat, rat.....short
as opposed to
fate, gate, mate, late....long
Jsem zvědav, jak by to vypadalo, kdybych byl přivolávačem deště. Jak by to vypadalo, kdybych uměl přivolat déšt'?

Mám pocit ale, že se to bohužel nikdy nedozvím.
McCracken
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Postby McCracken » 17-Apr-09 23:36

scrimshaw wrote:Maybe this will help....even though it looks like it could be broken into syllables...it is not
some might say or-inge
but it mostly pronounced altogether with no stops or pauses
Remember this....the A is silent...not pronounced.

ORNdž...the dž sound is exactly the same as first (or last ge) in the name
George



You quite rightly explained that GB and the US are separated by a common language and your point here proves it too :) .

In England the A is not silent at all, albeit not pronounced as A. Your "oringe" above would sound close to an English person, as would "orenge", both with 2 clear syllables. "Ornge" would definitely be southern USA to most ears on this side of the pond :wink: .
bibax
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Postby bibax » 18-Apr-09 0:04

Are you familiar with this? In our english
Each vowel has two distinct sounds....a long....and a short
fat, cat, slap, mat, rat.....short
as opposed to
fate, gate, mate, late....long

You have a different terminology.

More precisely:

rod, dot, cock....short (single wovel)
small, wall, call...long (single wovel)
rode, dote, coke...considered long, but in fact it is a DIPHTHONG !

Well, let us forget the terminology.

Thus Mr. McCracken resolved the problem:
orange pronounced oringe or orenge in Brittania.

We learned to pronounce oringe in Czechoslovakia. It is most common here.
Last edited by bibax on 18-Apr-09 0:16, edited 1 time in total.
scrimshaw
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Postby scrimshaw » 18-Apr-09 0:06

Well, I am a southerner :D
There are regional variations.
I say y'all, too. 8)
Jsem zvědav, jak by to vypadalo, kdybych byl přivolávačem deště. Jak by to vypadalo, kdybych uměl přivolat déšt'?

Mám pocit ale, že se to bohužel nikdy nedozvím.
McCracken
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Postby McCracken » 18-Apr-09 0:17

scrimshaw wrote:I say y'all, too. 8)


:lol: :lol:

Every couple of years or so I meet up with friends from Georgia and Florida and afterwards it takes me about a week to stop sayin "y'all" :wink:

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