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končí vs přestává
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Ctyri koruny
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Joined: 25 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: 13-Dec-09 20:53  Reply with quote

student wrote:
Kat will say something or Kat said that... both point toward primarily toward what Kat is doing. Tell points more towards the content of the speech (i.e., the direct object). For example, Kat will tell a story



Yes Kat can tell a story but she can also tell me something or say something to me.
Tell + story is just a colocation, for me it has nothing to do with meaning.
Tell someone something and say something to someone are the same in every way other than this grammar difference with direct and indirect object... say requiring "to" and tell not.


Quote:
Kat will tell some random words .


Again to me it's just colocation, grammar of habbit and not of meaning or nuance.

Just the same as we say "light" a cigarette not "start" a cigarette. or "ignite" a cigarette, it's just a collocation.
another example you can say extremely happy but not highly happy. Just habit dictating what sounds write and wrong, not meaning.
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hribecek
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PostPosted: 18-Dec-09 20:01  Reply with quote

I think the difference in meaning is reasonably clear.
It's the difference between stop doing something/přestat (as in an action) and to finish something/končit.
If you can feel the difference (in English) between 'to stop doing something' and 'to finish something' then you'll get the difference in Czech (at least generally).
Přestal jsem pracovat abych si mohl odpočinout = I stopped working in order to take a break.
Skončil jsem práci pro dnešek= I finished work for the day.

The difference between přestat and zastavit was always the problem for me - to stop doing something and to stop movement.
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scrimshaw
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PostPosted: 18-Dec-09 22:23  Reply with quote

That's funny Čtyři....if something stops doing something in front of you, just don't comment about it Very Happy At least you won't be wrong, right?

This doesn't pertain to you, ok?. but it reminded me of this..
Better to remain silent and thought a fool, rather than speak up and remove all doubt.

And the verbs 'to tell' and 'to say'

There is definitely a difference, I just don't know how to explain it. Grammatically inept.

You say something to somebody....but
you tell somebody something
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Jsem zvědav, jak by to vypadalo, kdybych byl přivolávačem deště. Jak by to vypadalo, kdybych uměl přivolat déšt'?
Mám pocit ale, že se to bohužel nikdy nedozvím.
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MK
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PostPosted: 22-Dec-09 1:20  Reply with quote

[quote="hribecek"]

The difference between přestat and zastavit was always the problem for me - to stop doing something and to stop movement.[/quote]

he stopped doing movement hence he stopped

přestal se pohybovat tedy zastavil se

Very Happy
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scrimshaw
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PostPosted: 22-Dec-09 15:18  Reply with quote

Kluk skákal na poli v krásný jarní den, ale se náhle zastavil..
Přestal skočit, protože viděl v travě hada.
'Co to je, táto?'
'To je had, synečku. Jsou to naše přátelé. Dej mu pokoj. Žerou myši a tak.'
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Jsem zvědav, jak by to vypadalo, kdybych byl přivolávačem deště. Jak by to vypadalo, kdybych uměl přivolat déšt'?
Mám pocit ale, že se to bohužel nikdy nedozvím.
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Karel_lerak
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PostPosted: 22-Dec-09 22:40  Reply with quote

scrimshaw wrote:
Kluk skákal na poli v krásný jarní den, ale náhle se zastavil..
Přestal skákat, protože uviděl v trávě hada.
'Co to je, táto?'
'To je had, synečku. Jsou to naši přátelé. Dej mu pokoj. Žerou myši a tak.'

stop jumping - přestat skákat, doskákat
skočit - jump once
skákat - continue to jump
doskákat - cease jumping
doskočit - reach by jumping
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scrimshaw
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PostPosted: 24-Dec-09 0:18  Reply with quote

Kluk doskákal, protože uviděl v trávě děsivého hada.
Nikdy předtím neuviděl hada, a tak nevěděl co to je.
Po tom, co se had odeplížil, kluk skákal dál.
Doskočil velký kámen a zvedl rukou vítězně.
On je králem všech, co vidí.
'Podívej se, táto, řekl jsem ti, že to můžu udělat.'
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Jsem zvědav, jak by to vypadalo, kdybych byl přivolávačem deště. Jak by to vypadalo, kdybych uměl přivolat déšt'?
Mám pocit ale, že se to bohužel nikdy nedozvím.
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Karel_lerak
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PostPosted: 27-Dec-09 21:57  Reply with quote

scrimshaw wrote:
Kluk doskákal, protože uviděl v trávě děsivého hada.
Nikdy předtím ne(u)viděl hada, a tak nevěděl, co to je.
Po tom, co se had odeplížil, kluk skákal dál.
Doskočil na velký kámen a zvedl vítězně rukou.
On je králem všech, co vidí.
'Podívej se, táto, řekl jsem ti, že to můžu udělat.'/že to dokážu

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Ctyri koruny
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PostPosted: 30-Dec-09 14:16  Reply with quote

scrimshaw wrote:
That's funny Čtyři....if something stops doing something in front of you, just don't comment about it Very Happy At least you won't be wrong, right?

This doesn't pertain to you, ok?. but it reminded me of this..
Better to remain silent and thought a fool, rather than speak up and remove all doubt.

And the verbs 'to tell' and 'to say'

There is definitely a difference, I just don't know how to explain it. Grammatically inept.

You say something to somebody....but
you tell somebody something



Direct object vs. indirect, you are not gramatically inept you allready know all about it with "vědět" vs. "znát" Smile
Of course we have a feeling of how there is some difference in meaning, but that's terribly abstract and useless, the only difference anyone learning needs to know the grammar/collocation.
It's the same as how you have an emotional idea as to why it's "take your time" and not "leave your time" or "have your time" "make your time" but trying to explain that to someone is impossible, which is why you have to say "It just is, and you have to learn it."



Quote:

If you can feel the difference (in English) between 'to stop doing something' and 'to finish something' then you'll get the difference in Czech (at least generally).


heh!
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scrimshaw
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PostPosted: 30-Dec-09 19:48  Reply with quote

To jsou dobré vysvětlení.

Myslím si, že to chápu.

Přestal pracovat, protože měl schuzku se šéfem. Budu muset doskončit svou práci doma. Došel k šefovým kancelaři včas, ale šef tam nebyl. Je rozhněvaný, protože celá věc byla ztrata času.
Nejhorší je, že zmeškal vlak a teď nebude doma včas k večeři.
Otevřel noviny a začal čist zajímavý članek, ale dřív, než jej mohl dočíst, přijel k stanici vlak. Nastoupil na nej a sedl si vedle oknu.
Slunce už zapadala.
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Jsem zvědav, jak by to vypadalo, kdybych byl přivolávačem deště. Jak by to vypadalo, kdybych uměl přivolat déšt'?
Mám pocit ale, že se to bohužel nikdy nedozvím.
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