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what do you think about kosovo? and tibet?
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wer
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 1700
Location: East Bohemia

PostPosted: 05-Feb-10 15:32  Reply with quote

AxeZ, your examples are more emotional than reasonable.

No monetary union is sustainable without some instrument which balances the economies of individual regions. It may be massive economical migration like in the US, for example, but in the European conditions there it is usually a fiscal transfer from the more developed regions to the less devoleped ones.
In Czechoslovakia, Czech countries massively subsidized Slovak (and before the war also Ruthenian) economy, Slovakia was parodoxically the only region within Eastern Bloc which profited economically on the communist era, but no Czech politician would mind to use that card against Slovakia.

And by the way, do you really think that Serbia was less developed than Kosovo?
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AxeZ
Member


Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Novi Sad, Vojvodina

PostPosted: 05-Feb-10 22:04  Reply with quote

wer wrote:
AxeZ, your examples are more emotional than reasonable.

No monetary union is sustainable without some instrument which balances the economies of individual regions. It may be massive economical migration like in the US, for example, but in the European conditions there it is usually a fiscal transfer from the more developed regions to the less devoleped ones.
In Czechoslovakia, Czech countries massively subsidized Slovak (and before the war also Ruthenian) economy, Slovakia was parodoxically the only region within Eastern Bloc which profited economically on the communist era, but no Czech politician would mind to use that card against Slovakia.

And by the way, do you really think that Serbia was less developed than Kosovo?



I was refering to Vojvodina.
Kosovo indeed was economical black hole....non the less...I wasn't emotional at all...maybe I failed to elaborate.
Here is the thing...you are reffering about fiscal transfer...sorry this is not the deal.
Thing is......
Vojvodina was forcefully stripped of its autonomy by serbia
ALL property of Vojvodina became property of Serbia
All taxes are now paid to serbia.
Vojvodina oil industry became property of Serbia which donated it to russians for riddiculous ammount

Vojvodinas development depends solely on the serbia good will ( which is nonexistant )

Can you tell the difference.......An autonomous province enjoyed autonomy in former country.
A part of that country forcefully stripped autonomy of that region and took away all it's rights and possesions. Over 50.000 people were denied their jobs. Nothing was invested back to Vojvodina in the past 20 years.

Can you please read this article and tell me your opinion?

https://www.slobodnavojvodina.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=156:vojvodina-still-under-iron-grip-of-serbia&catid=49:english&Itemid=62
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scrimshaw
Senior Member


Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 3166
Location: Florida

PostPosted: 06-Feb-10 23:58  Reply with quote

Well, Axez, I read that article, and it lead me to many more articles and links, so it was a nice day for doing "research". I like history so, all in all, not a bad way to spend a rainy day. Learned a lot.
What a rich history it has, dating back to Celt dominance in the 4th century BC and then roman rule, and through time was under the dominion of many different empires including, among others, Hun, Byzantine, Bulgarian, Ottoman, Austro-Hungarian, and then the Federation of Yugoslavia.
Do the people there recognize any common history? That would be my first question?
I would say the article maybe is one sided, from the Vojvodina perspective, and that the Serbs would not agree with it entirely, but everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion.
The Serbs would characterize it differently, but then their opinion would be one sided too.
The region is so ethnically diverse, and in pictures beautiful.
According to the article, Serbia fears a move towards complete independence by the Vojvodians.
The states were held together forcefully under Tito.
I have no answers. With time hopefully everything will be resolved to everybody's satisfaction.
No easy answers I guess. But the future looks bright.
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Jsem zvědav, jak by to vypadalo, kdybych byl přivolávačem deště. Jak by to vypadalo, kdybych uměl přivolat déšt'?
Mám pocit ale, že se to bohužel nikdy nedozvím.
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AxeZ
Member


Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Novi Sad, Vojvodina

PostPosted: 07-Feb-10 0:22  Reply with quote

A day well spent I would say.
Well, people usually recognize common history....only interpretations vary..Smile
Some would say Vojvodina joined serbia by the will of the people...others would sat that People who voted on that are representatives of only 30% of the population and the majority wasn't allowed to vote...Wink
Article as na article, can only be fully undestood by hte people who actually live here...but let me just elaborate a bit....it's not the SERBS VS OTHERS, it's the people of Vojvodina VS serbia, let's not forget.most vocal and prominent pro autonomy and even pro Vojvodina independence figures are ethically serbs themselves.

Anyway, I am glad you liked what you have learned about this part of Europe...if you happen to stop by...maybe at EXIT festival in Novi Sad....I"ll be glad to show you around.


scrimshaw wrote:
Well, Axez, I read that article, and it lead me to many more articles and links, so it was a nice day for doing "research". I like history so, all in all, not a bad way to spend a rainy day. Learned a lot.
What a rich history it has, dating back to Celt dominance in the 4th century BC and then roman rule, and through time was under the dominion of many different empires including, among others, Hun, Byzantine, Bulgarian, Ottoman, Austro-Hungarian, and then the Federation of Yugoslavia.
Do the people there recognize any common history? That would be my first question?
I would say the article maybe is one sided, from the Vojvodina perspective, and that the Serbs would not agree with it entirely, but everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion.
The Serbs would characterize it differently, but then their opinion would be one sided too.
The region is so ethnically diverse, and in pictures beautiful.
According to the article, Serbia fears a move towards complete independence by the Vojvodians.
The states were held together forcefully under Tito.
I have no answers. With time hopefully everything will be resolved to everybody's satisfaction.
No easy answers I guess. But the future looks bright.

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scrimshaw
Senior Member


Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 3166
Location: Florida

PostPosted: 08-Feb-10 0:09  Reply with quote

AxeZ, thanks for the nice invitation. If I'm ever in the area I will do that. Sadly, I'm sure I will never be in the area. But, just the same, it is a nice offer.
I am glad to hear that it is a homeland loyalty, that is driving the movement, rather than an ethnic loyalty. Sheer ethnic loyalty always leads to ugly outcomes.
Věci, které nás svazají, jsou silnější, než ty, které nás oddělí.
_________________
Jsem zvědav, jak by to vypadalo, kdybych byl přivolávačem deště. Jak by to vypadalo, kdybych uměl přivolat déšt'?
Mám pocit ale, že se to bohužel nikdy nedozvím.
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