My Czech Republic Message Boards

Culture: RE: Euronews report on Prague's Art world

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:03:05 GMT

Ctyri koruny wrote:

Yeah it's really what amazes me, there is a lot of racism at home, but it only effects the type of people I don't generally associate with; unintelligent, without basic human empathy etc.

Here it seems to me racism against Gypsies is endemic in every walk of life, even sociologists who you would think would have some understanding of what causes the differences and distinctions between different peoples.

It makes me feel that this lack of understanding is a basic trait of human kind, I know if I had been born here I would be wearing the same blinkers, be feeling the same way. Perfectly good, nice, intelligent people are poisoned by this.

I think it is true that they don't do so well at school.
Imagine no one in your family has ever been to college. Worse than that, imagine you have say, blue eyes, and you have never heard of anyone with blue eyes getting a good job and living a normal life, let alone going to college.
You might still want to work hard in school and get on in life, but it will seem pretty impossible, you have no role models. Also there is nothing to tell you that this type of life is "good" because the people you see living it look the same as the people that shout things at you on the street or give you filthy or suspicious looks or put their hands into their pockets and cling onto their wallets when they see you.
Now imagine you're a hard working good person, you go to school, and every day the children call you names and every day you hear in class about what a problem you blue-eyed people are. (I hear it every day in class, I wonder if it's different when there is a Gypsy present?)
I think you'd need to be an incredibly strong person to get through a day like this.
Prostitution is legal here and a lot of gypsy girls do do this.
For some reason no one sees this as evidence that there must be something wrong here. They seem to imagine that the girls have somehow chosen this life for themselves.

There are different social classes at home and if you live in a council estate you're generally accepted as being lower class. Some lower class people wear track suits. Most people are afraid of them. Some of them have been known to ask a person for their phone and then take it. Or stand on some bridge or narrow path and claim that to pass you need to pay a toll. Etc.
These same two stories, which are classics, were told to me as evidence of how Gypsies are somehow not human.
This happens everywhere! But the difference is the brothers of the boys at home wear suits and work in banks and no one associates them with their brothers. Here every Gypsy is judged by the actions of one or two, and the ones who complain of racism and mistreatment, I've been told, are "exaggerating" or "lying". As if actually their lives are easy and none of them are living in fear or suffering at all because of the colour of their skin/the way they dress/the way they talk/the music they make and listen to. Because that's really all that's different about them. And that disqualifies them from being "Czech"

There are three words in Czech for Gypsies that I know of
Gipsy - Which (I am told) they just use with each other
Rom - Which (I am told) is for politicians to use. PC
Cik�n - Which (I am told) is what "Czech" people call them, but you're not supposed to say it to their face? It seems to me to be something along the lines of "Tinker"

To be honest I can't recognize gypsies. I don't know if you've noticed but Czech people have dark skin too!
I think sometimes gypsies wear clothes closer to what the lower classes wear at home, big earrings, often tracksuits etc. Otherwise I haven't an idea. So this whole thing seems so imaginary and ridiculous to me. No one will accept they're Czech people. There is no "They"

I try really hard not to take this personally, but a family member is Gypsy and every time they say something horrible about them I don't only think about the other human beings out there that aren't being treated fairly but also about her. They're saying all these things about her. And I know her and I know she is intelligent and hard working and has gone through amazing hardships in her life and had to fight for everything she has.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with kibicz. I don't know what is the exact definition of the term "racism" but most of the "white" Czechs don't distrust Gypsies because of some prejudice but because of their own personal experience. I could tell you quite a few stories about them myself, but I don't want to be accused of spreading racism.

And no, I don't think all Gypsies are violent thugs, I know that many of them are decent people but the sad fact is that a lot of them (especially the younger ones) are indeed involved in all kinds of criminal activity. It is no wonder, then, that people behave differently when they encounter a group of such people. You call it racism, but in my opinion it would be simply foolish not do so. I bet you would act differently too if you were for example in Harlem in the middle of the night. Does that mean that all inhabitants of Harlem are thieves? No, it simply means that some of them are, so you have to be more careful there. Does that mean that your are a racist? I don't think so.

I know that the current situation is far from perfect but I honestly don't see any simple solution to this problem. I really don't know what else we ("the evil white majority") can do for them. The main problem is that Gypsies are usually unwilling to adapt to the local culture which is a reason why they are often viewed as "non-natives who don't belong here". That itself does not have to be that bad, but the problem is that their culture is vastly different from ours (or Western). In some aspects it is better than ours (taking care of family for example) but there are also things that are simply incompatible with our way of life. For example they don't view theft as something morally wrong. One would think that they would be able to adapt to the local cultural conditions after 500 years but they don't (and that is the problem of all Europeans countries that have some significant population of Gypsies.. remember the recent plan of the Italian government to fingerprint all Italian Gypsies? )

I know that it is probably impossible to convince anyone who has not been living in CR for a longer time that we are not a bunch of racists but, well, at least I tried.

Travel Tips & Advice: RE: Charles Bridge Maintinance

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:55:28 GMT

GlennInFlorida wrote:

eyesmax wrote:

anyone know how long it will be???

I suppose long enough to get to the other side of the river

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

Grammar & Pronunciation: RE: more on se and si

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:46:50 GMT

Pamatuje�, �e d�vno jsem sem poslal p�r post� o p�sni Guantanamera?
Mysl�m si, �e tohle je p�vodn� b�se�.
Byla to naps�na v �pan�lstin�. Jsem si jist, �e m�j p��klad nen� to nejlep��ho.

Jsem skromn� mu�,
poch�z�m ze zem�, kde rostou palmy,
a d��v, ne� um��m,
chci zeslat svoje b�sn�, kter� p�ich�zej� z m� du��.

se chud�ky zem�,
k n�mi se chci p�ipojit,
mal� vnitrozemsk� potok
se mi l�b� v�c, ne� mo�e

Chci, a� um��m,
bez domovy, ale tak� bez vedouc�,
m�t na n�hrob� kytice,
a vlajku.

a pro zl�,
kter� mi vyt�hl srdce, moje nad�j�,
trn ani bodl�k nep�tuji,
p�tuji bil� r��e,

p�tuji b�l� r��e,
v �ervenci, jako i v �noru,
pro sv�j skute�n� p��tel,
kter� mi d�l svoje ruka p��telstv�.

moje v�ty jsou jako jasn� zeleno,
a tak� jako ho��c� v�e�,
moje v�ty jsou jako zran�n� d�vok� kanec,
kter� se na velk� ho�e toul�.

Poch�z�m ze v�ech m�st,
a ke v�em m�st�m jdu,
�m�n� jsem mezi um�n�mi,
a v hor�ch jsem hora,

v�echno je kr�sa a trval�,
v�echno je hudba a spravedliv�,
a v�echno, stejn� jako diamant,
p�edt�m, ne� je to sv�tlo, je uhel.

.................

Havana je jako r��e,
m� oba okv�tn� listky a trny.

Dnes, mi, ti ob�ani Kuby, jsme pron�sledovani despotem a jmenuje se Batista.
P�i�el �as, abychom �inili. Kdo, kdy� ne my a kde, kdy� ne ted. �ili jsme pod jeho botou p��li� dlouho.

Mu� st�l u okna a pod�v�l se jak �ern� auto projel branou. Sebral sluch�tko a �ekl: �Pt�k je v hnizd�.�
�Rozum�m, pt�k je v hnizd�.'

Krasn� pole pln� zelen�ch cukrov�ch t�tiny tem�� a� p�ech�z� zrak,
v d�lce jsou modr� hory pod jasnou modrou oblohou,
listy se h�baj� v lehk�m, p�ijemn�m vanku, zvuk st�elb� je sly�et.

Culture: RE: Euronews report on Prague's Art world

Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:04:22 GMT

My my, what a load of prejudice you have..

Its not prejudice but experience. They�ve lived here for quite long time. Open your mind and your eyes. Its prejudice of many people from post-democratic bloc that "This is bad because it is bad and thats it, you rasist nazi!". Educated man shall never support opinion without free discussion.

They are not "not doing well in school", they boycott it. Those who want to study university and have a good job usualy have to cut connections with their community in order to preserve what he/she reached. Or else his own community will "share" his money/property.. Its not white racism as you say but their own internal problem (we have to deal with..). There are few gypsies who managed it and noone have problem to accept him/her(except his community).

Quote:

There are three words in Czech for Gypsies that I know of
Gipsy - Which (I am told) they just use with each other
Rom - Which (I am told) is for politicians to use. PC
Cik�n - Which (I am told) is what "Czech" people call them, but you're not supposed to say it to their face? It seems to me to be something along the lines of "Tinker"

Gypsy is English term unknown to Czechs and gypsies.(and find why are they called that way!)
Cik�n is correct term in many languages for this ethnic group. Ebven gypsies call that way themselves.
(Ola�sk�) Rom is correct name for certain part of previous ethnic group. Used as term for "Cik�ni" its PC. Its not Czech word btw.

I can recognize Cik�n immediately.

And they are not Czech/Slovak/German/Polish/Magiar etc. They are Gypsy where ever they live - its nothing wrong.

Quote:

What I can't understand is why some supposedly educated people can be so prejudiced about gypsies and are so open and unashamed about expressing these views. There's no embarrassment and the prejudices are presented as fact.

Whats wrong about presenting one's opinion?! In Czech there are to words to describe "educated" - Vzd�lan� - "about knowledge and ability to think" and "vychovan�" - "thought how to behave" - which meaning do you mean?

Travel Tips & Advice: RE: Charles Bridge Maintinance

Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:47:19 GMT

eyesmax wrote:

anyone know how long it will be???

I suppose long enough to get to the other side of the river

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

Grammar & Pronunciation: RE: kon�� vs p�est�v�

Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:14:24 GMT

P�est�v� pr�et - It stops raining
vs.
Vlak kon�� ve stanici Ka�erov - Train ends/terminates at Ka�erov station.

For me the difference is similar to the English one.

Kon�it and skon�it (ukon�it, zakon�it etc.) are used in infinitive:
Kon�it a� k r�nu
Skon�it s kou�en�m
Ukon�it pracovn� pom�r
Zakon�it sez�nu

Vocabulary & Translation Help: RE: En > Cz "It's time to calculate the mean!"

Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:22:34 GMT

Czech language has dozens of colloquial expressions for drunkeness, however the standard term is "opilost" (cf. drunken = opil�).

Grammar & Pronunciation: kon�� vs p�est�v�

Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:10:04 GMT

Is there a difference in meaning between them or is it just a grammar thing?

What are the grammar rules?
kon��t / skon�� aren't used in the infinitive?

Vocabulary & Translation Help: RE: En > Cz "It's time to calculate the mean!"

Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:31:20 GMT

great! thanks! but One more question!

How do you say "Drunkeness" I couldn't find it in the dictionary

Vocabulary & Translation Help: RE: remote student: En->Cz

Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:48:56 GMT

wer wrote:

veikkola wrote:

Hi,
I have been trying to find the Czech expression for "remote student" or "remote learner" i.e someone who is learning at home and the teacher is somewhere else.

I don’t think we have a single term for it. It is not common here.

Quote:

Thank you. Would it then be correct to say: U��m se �e�tinu d�lkov�m studiem?

“U��m se studiem” is pleonasm. Better to say: “u��m se d�lkov�” or “u��m se na d�lku”.
The first option is common for the kind of studies described by eso and TomKQT, the second option is unaccustomed but, at least for me, it suits your meaning perfectly.

Also, consider the possibility to specify the way of studies in a different way:

u��m se doma (na d�lku)
u��m se koresponden�n�
u��m se pomoc� knih (Internetu, po��ta�ov�ch program�…)
…

(Studuji pr�va v Plzni, telefonicky. )

Ctyri koruny wrote:

Does that mean the same as an open university student though?

I have no idea what the term “open university student” means.

http://www.open.ac.uk/europe/czechrepublic/ou/?source=ggl_ou_cz_oucz&KWCAMPAIGN=cybcz_ou_oucz_ad&keywordid=gglcz_Open_University_cz