parsing

Often a single nominal form corresponds to two or more cases, e.g.
vlak "train" : nominative, accusative
vlaku "train" : genitive, dative
I suppose Czech school kids have to do some parsing. Are there exercices in which they are asked to tell which case it is?

 

Definitely - parsing homework and tests are a nightmare for most sixth- up to ninth-graders (and their parents, too).

 

Hi, Jana.
A nightmare, but also a good training in the logic of the language.

 

I agree completely; unfortunately not many teachers at Czech elementary schools try to explain any logical principles of language to their pupils. Mostly, it is just drill (and consequently a nightmare).

 

Yeah, it was nightmare. But also another nightmare was to learn "vyjmenovaná slova" - special words where is "y".

 

Do you all Czechs here remember all "vyjmenovana slova" still? :twisted:

 

I don't think that I could recite them any more (by, být, bydlet, obyvatel..?). But what gives me real trouble at the moment is deciding on "mě or mně" either as words by themselves or in words such as proměny, zapoměla (or zapomněla?). I forgot what the rules are. :roll:
L

 

Mně vs. mě:

• mně = 3rd (ke mně) and 6th case (o mně)
• mě = the rest (viděl jsi mě (4th case), ...)

Pomněnka, domněnka, zapomněla etc. :arrow: if there is "pomně" it's always "mně" from the word "pomni"

 

What does it mean: "the rest"?

The best method is (for the Czechs, of course):

mně - (corresponds) tobě, sobě
mě - tě, se
mne - tebe, sebe
mi - ti, si
mnou - tebou, sebou

Common mistakes:

pro mě, ode mě, etc. instead of pro mne, ode mne as we say pro tebe, od tebe, etc.

also Mě tam neviděl! is not wholly correct (Tebe tam neviděl! -> Mne tam neviděl!)

 

Interesting, I've never seen that with "mne - tebe, sebe" etc. "the rest" = other cases (except of the 3rd and 6th one). Why is "pro mě" a mistake? It's the 4th case thus "mě". And of course, every "mě" can be replaced with "mne".

 

I understand what you have meant with "the rest", but it is not correct.

Pro mě is not correct as we cannot analogically say pro se (but some odd fishes say pro tě). The short forms (mě, tě, se, mi, ti, si) are not allowed after prepositions in (hyper-)correct Czech.

 

Ok ok, I don't use "hyper-correct" Czech and haven't seen anybody around me who does Interesting, where did you learn this? What I remember, I have nothing like this in the basic & grammar school (maybe I slept during it :lol.

 

Už ani nevím. Myslel jsem si, že analogie mezi tvary osobních zájmen já, ty a se je všeobecně známá.

Každopádně funguje. 8)

 

Ja si to zas pamatuju podle toho padu - 3. a 6. "mně", ostatni "mě" s tim, ze jdou nahradit za "mne"

 

I have noticed that the ČT newsreaders use the correct Czech. They usually say for example:

oni vědí (they know)
oni přicházejí (they come)
oni ztrácejí (they lose)
oni smějí
oni umějí

On the other side all Nova newsreaders (not only the Afro-Czech) systematically say:

oni ví (they knows)
oni přichází (they comes)
oni ztrácí (they loses)
oni smí
oni umí

Which makes me furious. :evil:

 

I'm not such linguist like you boys, I haven't seen the difference until now :shock:. Interesting, maybe our childrens will learn the both ways as correct :roll:

 

I think it's the best method for foreigners, too. That's how I was taught. Having said that, however, I realize that I commonly make the "pro mě" mistake. I must have picked it up somewhere from a native (either that or I just confuse it with Russian :? ) and never realized it until now. Thanks, Zeisig!