Aspect: A Novel

Discussion in 'Grammar & Pronunciation' started by Wicker808, Feb 3, 2005.

  1. Wicker808

    Wicker808 Well-Known Member

    Hello, everyone.

    I've been thinking recently a lot about aspect (but who hasn't?).

    I've also been very disappointed by the lack of solid information about this very important and complicated part of Czech grammar, and so I've decided to compile my knowledge into a document. This serves partly to help me compose my thoughts, and partly, I hope, to help others who are learning Czech.

    Consider this a work in progress. I welcome criticism and comments, and I'd also like to hear if it helps anyone, or for that matter if anyone reads it to the end.
  2. uuspoiss

    uuspoiss Well-Known Member

    I haven't read it to the end yet, since it's probably not fair to do that out of my employer's time, but I've been looking for something that would explain all this for a long time now. Thank you, I'm sure it will prove to be very useful (I'll let you know if it won't :))
  3. digitaliz

    digitaliz Active Member

    Wow! This is great! :)
  4. Qcumber

    Qcumber Well-Known Member

    I am impressed. I have decided to learn some Czech, and what you say looks good. Thanks a lot.
    By the way, could you please add a third column and give the equivalent English infinitives for the double list of verbal forms. :)
  5. frany71

    frany71 Member

    A very good job!

  6. Jirka

    Jirka Well-Known Member


    I haven't read the entire page, but I assume the contents are fine. They're actually look cool.

    What I'd like to give a bit of critisism to is the design. I generally consider one large page as opposed to a number of small interlinked pages a mistake...

  7. uuspoiss

    uuspoiss Well-Known Member

    In that case there should be a one-full-page version for those who need to print the thing.
  8. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    Sounds like the making of a .pdf
  9. Wicker808

    Wicker808 Well-Known Member

    As a compromise, I've added anchor links to each chapter.
  10. uuspoiss

    uuspoiss Well-Known Member

    Hey Wicker,

    I finally found some time to go through the whole thing. It's exactly what I needed! Lots of things make more sense now:) Thank you again.

    There seems to be a mix-up with the tenses under Tense and aspect. It says "perfective verbs express action only in the present and past". Shouldn't it be the past and future? Unless of course I've misunderstood something.

    A key to the exercise would be useful ;)

  11. Wicker808

    Wicker808 Well-Known Member


    Yes, that was a mistake. I fixed it. Thank you for noticing it.

    You can post your answers to the exercises here, where they can be critiqued by the community.

    I'm glad to hear that you find the article useful.
  12. uuspoiss

    uuspoiss Well-Known Member

    OK, I gave it a try. If we take it that only imperfective verbs can express actions in the present, what I did was to try and come with imperfective verbs or expressions to replace the perfective ones. As you see, I couldn't come up with any for some of them:( Any comments welcome:)

    # Nepodařilo se nám najít správnou odpověď.
    Nemůžeme najít správnou odpověď.

    # Budu pracovat svědomitěji.
    Pracuju svědomitě(ji).

    # Vyřeším i tvůj problém.
    Řeším tvůj problém.

    # Vyliju láhev na zem.
    Liju láhev na zem.

    # Důstojník jím příkáže, aby odešli.

    # Balík vypadl z náklaďáku.
    Balík vypadá z náklaďáku.

    # Vyvedli mě z omylu.
    Vedou mě k pravdě.

    # Spáchal tak hrozný zločin, že ho určitě propustí z firmy.
    ? (Which part of the sentence should be changed to the present?)

    # Dobytek se splašil.

    # Uspořádal jsem tvoji místnost.
    Dávám tvoji místnost do pořádku.
  13. Halef

    Halef Well-Known Member

    Důstojník jim přikazuje, aby odešli.

    Balík vypadává z náklaďáku (is in the process of falling).

    This may be a bit confusing - "vypadá" means "looks (like)" (infinitive "vypadat").

    Nice try :)
    I would suggest "Vyvádějí mě z omylu".
    Note that "vyvádět" without an object (On vyvádí) can also mean "to be raising the roof".

    Páchá tak hrozný čin,... The rest is in future tense and remains the same.

    Dobytek se plaší. (inf. plašit se)

    Very nice. If you want to keep strictly to "uspořádávat", say "Uspořádávám tvoji místnost". But your sentence sounds much better.
    Also note that "room" in such a context is usually translated as "pokoj".
  14. uuspoiss

    uuspoiss Well-Known Member

    Děkuju za opravu. Zdá se, že mám ještě opravdu hodně se učít:)

    Tak "pokoj" je obytný a "místnost" je jakákoliv část domu, ne?
  15. Wicker808

    Wicker808 Well-Known Member

    I agree with Halef's commentary, and I would like to expand on it.

    An appropriate rephrasing, but I would suggest "Nedaří se nám..."

    Also possible: "Vylévam láhev na zem," since this verbs has aspectual properties similar to nalít, which was enumerated in the article.

    This one is a little difficult, since verbs of this stem have a somewhat unexpected conjugation. But the stem is the same as in the verb ukázat.

    Halef is quite right: this is a very tricky case. This verb does not behave like other verbs having that stem. See the table at the end of the article; this case is made explicit. In addition to Halef's answer, I think "padá" is appropriate, although it includes a small change in meaning.

    I agree with Halef, although I would also propose the answer "Pořádám tvoji místnost."
  16. uuspoiss

    uuspoiss Well-Known Member

    Thanks. I was trying to do it without consulting your tutorial again, just to see if I had actually learned anything from it. So that's why the stupid mistakes. I guess I'll have to keep going through it from time to time.
  17. uuspoiss

    uuspoiss Well-Known Member

    The primer that we've been discussing says that imperfective verbs are used in imperative and subjunctive forms to indicate a negative command or wish. Can anyone provide some examples? Thanks.
  18. szarkafarka

    szarkafarka Well-Known Member

    Sedni si! - Nesedej si! (sednout - sedat)
    Vstaň! - Nevstávej! (vstát - vstávat)
    Odnes to! - Neodnášej to! (odnést - odnášet)
    Jdi tam! - Nechoď tam! (jít - chodit)

    Přeji si,
    abys vstal - abys nevstával.
    abys tam šel - abys tam nechodil.

    Kdybych to byl věděl, tak bych tam byl šel/nechodil.
  19. rsalc1

    rsalc1 Well-Known Member

    This is really very good!!!

    The article says:

    Impf. Durative: jít
    Impf. Iterative: chodit
    Impf. Frequentative: chodívat
    Perfective: zajít

    Here are some sentences that I wrote to see if I can understand:
    Jdu do školy: I am going to school (now) (durative)
    Chodím do školy každý den: I go to school every day (iterative)
    Chodívám do kina: I go to the movies sometimes (frequentative)

    I have a question, however.
    I don't understand how zajít fits into this picture.
    I learned that the perfective future of jít is půjdu.
    Půjdu do školy zítra: I will go to school tomorrow (one time)

    Can anyone explain when to use půjdu and when to use zajít ?

    Hezký den,
  20. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    Zajít is one of "simple and easy" Czech verbs - here are some English equivalents:

    zajít - go
    zajít - perish
    zajít - go with the wind
    zajít - peter out
    zajít - set
    zajít - go down
    zajít - call
    zajít - come across
    zajít - look round
    zajít - go over
    zajít - wane
    zajít - step over
    zajít - walk round
    zajít - come over
    zajít - die
    zajít - go around
    zajít - come up
    zajít - go for
    zajít (na návštěvu) - go round
    zajít (zaniknout) - go under
    zajít dál - go further
    zajít k - call on
    zajít k (dative) - come round
    zajít k (komu) - call at sb.'s house
    zajít ke - make a call on
    zajít ke - call on
    zajít ke (komu) - make a call on (sb.)
    zajít ke komu - call at one's house
    zajít (si) na jídlo (mimo dům) - dining out
    zajít na skok - drop in
    zajít pro (koho) - call for
    zajít si - make a detour
    nechat si zajít chuť na - forget
    nechat si zajít chuť na - forbear

    For perfective tenses, půjdu and šel jsem are appropriate in the set you mention.

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