Attitudes of young Czechs towards inter-racial dating

Discussion in 'Culture' started by Speed, Apr 15, 2004.

  1. Ariana

    Ariana Member

    My two cents:

    I have found this topic rather interesting. I am Korean-American and adopted. My parents are both white, and this has taught me that skin color doesn't matter. Although my skin may be different, my cultural identity is American.

    I'd also like to point out that interracial dating has yet to be fully accepted in America, especially dating between blacks and whites. In my experience, no one has ever thought my dating a white person to be wrong or strange. Perhaps this is because my skin color is basically white. (It's a little more yellow.) Maybe this is because Americans tend to stereotype Asian people a certain way. Sometimes I feel that guys don't want to date me because of my race or that people immediately assume that I don't speak English because I'm not white. The truth is that you will meet people who are less accepting no matter where you go.

    I think interracial dating is perfectly acceptable. Many agree; many disagree. I have to agree with those who have said that cultural practices are the bigger issue in these relationships. When others see people of other races, they make assumptions about their cultural practices before they know those practices. I think that when people who are unaccustomed to contact with people of other races see those people, they make judgments about culture --whether it is a conscious judgment or not, and often times these judgments make other racial groups' practices seem strange, immoral, or totally unacceptable.
  2. kkwonn

    kkwonn Member

  3. kkwonn

    kkwonn Member

  4. kkwonn

    kkwonn Member

  5. Ceit

    Ceit Well-Known Member

    What :?:

    I don't think sexuality has as much to do with American ageism as our hyperindividualism does. The elderly are shunned because they can't take care of themselves, which is a central tenet in our cultural belief system - if you can't stand on your own two feet, tough luck, you don't deserve anybody's help. Also, I don't think assumptions of sexuality or sexual practices cause racism; rather, they are symptomatic of the existing prejudice. kkwonn seems to be saying that the only victims of racism, at least in Asia, are non-whites; FALSE. Anybody remember what the Japanese did to their POWs in World War II? And what has the historical attitude of the Chinese been towards, well, EVERYBODY? Ironically, racism belongs to no race. It seems to me that it's normal, not just for humans but in all animals, to have an instinctive fear or suspicion of strangers. Back in the Stone Age, if a stranger or group of strangers came up to your cave, were they bringing cookies for a neighborly get-to-know-you party? I think not. We have retained that mistrust, but have "globalized" our respective worlds with communication and movement of people so that that mistrust causes real problems and becomes unacceptable. It's a relic of our emotional past that should be quashed. Some people could twist my opinion, saying, "Well, it's a natural impulse for the human being, therefore it's OK." My reply is that murder, rape and theft are also "natural" impulses, but civilized people agree that they should not be tolerated in society. So there. :!:

    Oh yeah, and I think interracial dating is good too.
  6. brook

    brook Well-Known Member

    wow....all I can say is, kkwonn, you should probably re-read anthropological theory - and not just what you find on the internet. No credible anthropologist would say that white people are more "attractive" or that all East Asians are "intelligent." That's absurd!

    racism is based on more than just looks. it is based mostly on beliefs, which are, I would argue, much more powerful than simply physical appearance. Also, culture is messy, complex and complicated but I think that's the way it should be - human behavior cannot be explained away mathematically and you should be suspicious of anyone who says they can. But that's just my humble opinion...
  7. Ceit

    Ceit Well-Known Member

    Well, he did mention a lot of "empirical" evidence.
    From the Merriam-Webster online dictionary:

    Main Entry: em·pir·i·cal
    1 : originating in or based on observation or experience <empirical data>
    2 : relying on experience or observation alone often without due regard for system and theory
    (bold type added by Ceit)

    That said, he's probably just stating his own, albeit unprofessional, opinion like the rest of us. I know I'm no sociologist, but I have plenty of opinions on society...and most of them are empirical. :wink:
  8. kkwonn

    kkwonn Member

  9. Ariana

    Ariana Member

    kkwonn, you make some very interesting points. Since you presented a lot of information, forgive me for responding in a haphazard fashion.

    First, I'd like to address E. Asian culture. In your first post you said that while E. Asians react fearfully to black people, they simply label white people as foreigners. I think that this is largely because whites and Asians do, in fact, have many physical similarities, especially skin color. E. Asians are not more "intelligent" than any other race. They have been shown to score higher on standardized tests and other quantifications. Yes, there are a lot of smart E. Asians, and yes, there are a lot of not-so-intelligent ones. Academic pressure is a huge part of Asian society. You do well, or you shame your family.

    Second, racism. Racism is defined as the belief that one's race is superior to another or all others. So, yes, many whites thought they were superior to blacks. But did they fear blacks? Yes. Fear of the unknown is a natural human feeling, although, culturally, humans react to it in different ways. I also believe that a lot of racism has to do with appearance. For instance, conflicts in E. Asian countries. Based on appearance? Maybe. Chinese people look different that Koreans, who look different from the Japanese. This difference can be a little hard to pick out for those who don't have a lot of contact with Asians. In Africa, different groups have different appearances, although we Westerners maybe have trouble differentiating.

    That's all I'll reply to at the moment. And, I don't mean this in a negative way, but maybe more as a bit of constructive criticism? Or just a suggestion? I got a little lost in wordy explanations and terms specific to an area of study that not all of us are necessarily familiar with.
  10. brook

    brook Well-Known Member

    By questioning your logical reasoning, I wasn't questioning your intelligence. I disagree with your reasoning, that is all.

    I think you misunderstood what I said, but okay.

    Anyone who says they can "spot" a Jew a mile away must have preconceived notions of what a Jewish person looks like. I say, looks can be deceiving - not everything is as it appears and anyway, why is this important?
  11. Eva2

    Eva2 Well-Known Member

    To kkwonn:

    I don't want to rain on your parade... Wait, actually I want to rain on your parade, kkwon. I must express my admiration for the patience of Ceit, Brook and Arianna who actually succeeded in capturing the two or three ideas contained in your pseudo-scientific clutter.

    Why do you have to express yourself in such a convoluted manner? As every editor would tell you, simplicity in writing is a virtue. Your style reminds me of a large parcel that, unwrapped, contains a single nut. Please, try to reduce your thoughts to a digestible fodder!

    This was meant in a friendly manner. No hard feelings, I hope! 8)
  12. Ceit

    Ceit Well-Known Member

    Wow, ten pages...this is a topic that generates a lot of discussion, which is a good thing when it's among reasonable people who can clearly express their opinions...

    Oh me oh my, so much to comment on. I'll try to be brief.

    "Historic East Asian breeding"? Are we discussing farm animals? What exactly is the difference between Asian and European "anthropological conditions" anyway? Didn't everybody everywhere just want to pair up?

    Those people are called anti-Semites. If most of the white people you have so much experience with are bigoted Jew-spotters, then it's little wonder you have no trouble thinking of us as pretty faces with no brains behind them. And your post makes it sound as if you also believe Jews to have a typical physical appearance.

    If you're not talking about racism and you're not talking about interracial dating (the original topic of the thread, remember?), then what was the point of posting?

    Blacks weren't feared? You obviously have not studied much American history. Or maybe you have studied statistics or dates, but not anything about the American people or their lives.

    My point exactly! Within a society people can be trusting of others because they share the same cultural values, beliefs, etc. However, somebody from outside that society, i.e. foreign, may be the object of suspicion because it is not known what that person's cultural values are. Physical differences are usually a clue that somebody is not from the area, although they don't have to be as showy as overall skin tone. For example, how many Italians are redheads? It may be that in present-day America racism is based more on appearance because we have decided that all those of (Christian) European ancestry are acceptable. If you had studied American society of the 19th century, you would know that racism was rampant, not only against blacks and Chinese, but also against Irish, Germans, Italians, Slavs, and anyone who did not fit the image of a "real" American - white, Protestant, English-speaking...gee, that sounds familiar. And the looked-down-upon had their prejudices as well; the Ku Klux Klan burned crosses outside my great-grandfather's butcher shop in the 1920's because he was a Bohemian Catholic in a German Lutheran town.

    Quite possibly. It could also be your penchant for defining your terms using the terms themselves.

    You know, I love the fact that this guy writes a long, rambling post only vaguely connected with the topic, then just three hours later writes another post screaming for feedback, and after a couple of responses from readers less than enchanted with his reasoning, he writes a feeble response and says he has to run along and study. Granted, it could be a coincidence, but as Enid Strict, the Church Lady, would say, how conveeeeeeeenient. Speaking of Church Lady quotes, has anybody else checked out this guy's "real" name? Who is it, who could it possibly be...could it be, oh I don't know...SATAN!?!?
  13. GlennInFlorida

    GlennInFlorida Well-Known Member

    love the "Church Lady" reference
  14. brook

    brook Well-Known Member

    Yes - thank you!!!
    Ceit, your entire post said much that I wanted to, but didn't. I got really angry reading kkwonn's post, so took some time away to cool off. Thanks!
  15. kkwonn

    kkwonn Member

    I know my first post here was unclear and made some people angry, so I'm sorry. I also know it's not quite on topic, as I'm not discussing Czechs and interracial dating. I was searching on interracial dating when I was lead here. I actually am a student, and I would rather emphasize that studying in place of being at this thread is more convenient to my being a student, as opposed to what the quotee may have suggested.

    Well, as I sort of introduced racism to the thread, I just want to make it clear that all things I said earlier were about white Americans. Eva was right in that not much of it is relevant to Czechs and dating, especially where I lecture on empirical nonnecessity and on pessimism and optimism in cultural definitions for empirical objects, including notions of race. It looks like there really is no demand for that post, so I removed it for your convenience, plus it's not relevant.

    Anyway, the topic of the thread can be seen as relevant to white-Americans and interracial dating, which can be seen as relevant disjunctively to white-Americans-and-racism and a related phenomenon I intend to describe, so I have decided to write something more about the latter that is more relevant than my first post. I'm talking about today's white Americans attitudes toward other races. I see the existence of interracial dating in the U.S., but what I see to at least the same frequency is the social ostracism of colored races. I see a white-American narcissism. This racial narcissism is my description of the state symptomatic of white-American-pessimistic attitudes towards colored races. For the most part, this is not a personal attack on individual white Americans. When I say "white-American" here, I'm talking about a cultural phenomenon. Despite the adjective, I don't intend the qualifier "all," as in the phrase "all white Americans."

    As a cultural phenomenon, I don't think it has to do with cultural or religious differences. More specifically, the phenomenon I mean to describe seems to me to occur especially with white Americans who are not necessarily religious. Also, this phenomenon (the one I'm describing) exists even with the exception of colored races who were raised in a different region or in a different culture, disjunctively. It is not necessarily relevant to whether blacks were feared in the past by whites or not in American history. As a part of the phenomenon today, white Americans do not exactly fear black Americans. This phenomenon is a modern phenomenon in which a certain image is central, It is a phenomenon essentially socially exclusive of colored races. This kind of white-optimistic advertising doesn't seem to occur so much in Western European countries from my impression. The image I'm talking about is not always representative of white-Americans or Europeans, but as part of the phenomenon I describe, includes a modern cultural definition for "white-American" and possibly, more broadly "white." This phenomenon doesn't necessarily occur with a religious or a separate cultural substantiation but does not not-help to support them; for example, a substantiation might be Nazi or neo-nazi beliefs. The phenomenon I describe creates pessimism for colored people without necessarily any beliefs about them.

    The remote relevance of what I just wrote to my first post is that the cultural definition here is not necessary to the empirical object--either, white Americans or white people--and that the machinery in this definition does not necessarily suit people, and that there may be particular conflict when the people are colored. This was not clear in my first post, so I'm sorry.
  16. Ariana

    Ariana Member

    In response. Again.

    White American attitudes toward "colored races." I first must point out that we non whites would rather be referred to as, at the very least, people of color. We wish to be seen as people before we are seen as colored. Second, what about white American attitudes toward other whites who don't fit their exact social group? White American anti-Semites, for example. Oh, and I believe a better word would be negative, not pessimistic.

    Oh, really? They don't? That original fear of black Americans is still here today. The racism, the hate that's still in America today is born of fear. Portraying the African Americans as inferior is just a defense mechanism that covers the underlying fear.

    I'd respond more, but I haven't got the patience to wade through all the pseudo-intelligent gibberish.

    But, to bring this a little bit more back on topic, what are your opinions on interracial dating where neither of the people are white? (ex. a black person dating a hispanic person.)
  17. kkwonn

    kkwonn Member

    For the first question, I would say that race really isn't a factor in these attitudes, since racial differences probably wouldn't be too evident. This isn't part of white-American narcissism, although I think the phenomenon is weaker among poorer white Americans.

    I actually don't know any white Americans who pessimize black Americans because he/she fears them.

    I don't have an opinion on interracial dating. I'm exploring opinions where they exist.
  18. Ariana

    Ariana Member

    The fear of black Americans isn't outwardly expressed. It is the underlying origin of the disdain, distrust, racism, etc. And just because you don't personally know anyone that "pessimizes" black Americans doesn't mean they don't exist.

    I'm not a moderator or an established member of this board, so maybe I'm out of line in saying this: This was originally a thread about interracial dating and what the Czech people think about it, so why are we discussing racism in America?
  19. Malcolm X

    Malcolm X New Member


    When I was born, I was black.
    When I grow up, I'm black.
    When I'm ill, I'm black.
    When I go out in the sun, I'm black.
    When I'm cold, I'm black.
    When I die, I'm black.

    But you -

    When you're born, you're pink.
    When you grow up, you're white.
    When you're ill, you're green.
    When you go out in the sun, you go red.
    When you're cold, you go blue.
    When you die, you're purple.

    And you have the nerve to call me coloured?
    - Malcom X
  20. Msssloop

    Msssloop New Member

    I actually have to agree with kkwonn about that so-called white-American narcissm.

    Today as I was waiting to enter the elevator on the ground floor, when the elevator door opened, an individual came out (most likely to exit the building). However, there was another individual who remained in the elevator. The reason for this as far as I can tell is that he wanted to go to the basement floor. Since the elevator will take people down before it goes up and in fact would have come back up to the ground floor and re-opened its door to let people in, I decided to wait for him to go down. The elevator door usually takes about five seconds for the door to close on its own. However, these five seconds were an awkward time for me and one in which the guy in the elevator just stared blankly at my face without any motion. By "blank stare," I don't mean to communicate a sort of void. The stare was quite pessimizing of me. Like, he's upset with my existence.

    It's annoying for me. I have thoughts that I will leave the U.S., and the above is my motive. I've lived in the mid-western states for a time in my life, and I know that Americans attitudes are not homogeneous. So, just leaving this area is an option. But can you believe you're reading this? Foreigners will probably not have this impression of what it's like for an individual of a racial minority such as me to be social with people.

    Not everyone I cross paths with is ostracisive, but I would certainly say that people are not likely to make much friendly behavior either.

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