(CZ>EN) Extracts from book review

Discussion in 'Vocabulary & Translation Help' started by rsalc1, May 22, 2009.

  1. rsalc1

    rsalc1 Well-Known Member

    I am translating the review of the book "České dějiny očima Psa"
    Can you folks help me with some difficult words and expressions?

    Typicky českého, chtělo by se říci.
    Typically Czech, _______________.

    (Pes) Dobře ví, na co má a na co ne. Má rád svůj klid a za kus dobrého žvance se nechá i napudrovat.
    Ale neodpustí si ironické poznámky, když se historie bere příliš vážně.
    (The dog) knows well, ____________________. He likes his tranquility and for a piece of good food _________________.
    But he ____________ ironic comments, when __________________ too importantly.

  2. bibax

    bibax Well-Known Member

    (Something) typically Czech, one would like to say. (in Czech - impersonal reflexive construction: (ono) se chce říci; by se chtělo říci)

    (The dog) knows well, where are the limits of his ability (capability). He likes his tranquility (reposal) and for a piece of good food he allows (endures) even powdering. But he can't help he must have ironic comments, when history is taken too seriously.

    On si nemůže pomoci, musí mít ironické poznámky.
  3. rsalc1

    rsalc1 Well-Known Member

    Thanks. Great explanation. I will make note of it.
  4. rsalc1

    rsalc1 Well-Known Member

    Here is another section of the book review. I don't understand a couple of words:

    Zkušená autorka Martina Drijverová vydala druhý díl svých Českých dějin očima Psa, s ilustracemi Petra Urbana, které jednoduchostí linií a nadsázkou trochu připomínají ty kalouskovské. Úvodní svazek ocenili jak knihovníci, tak učitelé v anketě Sukovy studijní knihovny literatury pro mládež.

    Experienced author Martina Drijverova published the second part of CDOP with illustrations by Petr Urban. They (Martina and Petr) evoke a little of [ty kalouskovské] with simplicity of lines and hyperbole(exaggeration).
    Librarians as well as teachers [ocenili] the initial edition in a survey...

    Does které refer to Martina a Urban?
    Don't know what kalouskovské means.
    Help please :)
  5. rsalc1

    rsalc1 Well-Known Member

    A word by word translation of the following is:

    Úvodní svazek ocenili jak knihovníci, tak učitelé v anketě Sukovy studijní knihovny literatury pro mládež.

    The initial edition (???) as librarians, as well as teachers in a survey ...
    of educational library literature for young people.

    I will try to determine the cases here:
    Úvodní svazek(accusative) ocenili(past tense 3rd person plural) jak knihovníci(nominative), tak učitelé(nominative) v anketě(locative) Sukovy studijní(genitive) knihovny(genitive?) literatury(?) pro mládež(accusative).

    A really tough sentence to parse :!:
  6. meluzina

    meluzina Well-Known Member

    ktere refers to illistrations

    Experienced author Martina Drijverova published the second volume of CDOP with illustrations by Petr Urban, which, with their simplicity of lines and hyperbole(exaggeration). remind one a bit of those by Kalousek. (implying Kalousek's illustrations)

    when a proper name is converted into this form, then it is not capitalized.

    this kalousek i think ...
    http://www.citarny.cz/index.php?option= ... temid=3689
  7. meluzina

    meluzina Well-Known Member

    jak knihovníci, tak učitelé

    jak .... tak... i would say is equal to " or "both ... as well as ..."

    "Sukova studijní knihovna literatury pro mládež" http://www.npkk.cz/npkk/suk_uvod.php

    The initial (first ) book (volume) was rated highly by both librarians as well as teachers in a survey performed by Suk's Study Library of Children's Literature.

    or, alternatively,

    In a survey performed by Suk's Study Library of Children's Literature, both librarians as well as teachers rated the first volume highly.
  8. bibax

    bibax Well-Known Member

    Úvodní svazek(acc sing) ocenili(past participle nom. plur. masc.) jak knihovníci(nom plur), tak učitelé(nom plur) v anketě(loc) Sukovy(gen) studijní(gen) knihovny(gen sing) literatury(gen sing) pro mládež(acc sing).

    Both librarians as well as teachers appretiated the first volume in a survey performed by Suk's Study Library of Children's Literature. (my translation is somewhat confusing: it was appretiated in a survey, it was not the first volume in a survey :cry: )

    díl, svazek = volume (tomus in Latin, eg. in tomis quinque)

    ocenili (to appretiate, pretium = cena, price) is a past participle, it does not express person, the copula jsou (jsú, sú) in the 3rd person sounds very archaic

    úvodní svazek (jsou) ocenili učitelé....
  9. rsalc1

    rsalc1 Well-Known Member

    Ah yes, thanks Bibax.
    ocenili is a past participle without a copula.

    But 'my jsme ocenili' => jsme ocenili is past participle with a copula (jsme)
  10. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Not sure about that René.
    I think

    Ocenili....is past tense......they appreciated

    Past participle might be, and this is just a guess..

    Knihy byly ocené čtenařy.
  11. bibax

    bibax Well-Known Member

    The Czech past tense is composed from copula (to be) and past participle.
    Something like "I am came" in (Old) English or "sono arrivato" in Italian.

    přišel jsem
    přišel jsi
    přišel (jest)

    přišli jsme
    přišli jste
    přišli (jsou)

    The copula in the 3rd person is redundant and omitted in Modern Czech.

    Přišel jest or přišli jsou sounds like thou art or thou hast in English.


    Řekl jest Ježíš k němu, že dnes spasenie tomuto domu stalo sě jest, proto že i on syn jest Abrahamóv; neb přišel jest syn člověka hledat a spasit.

    Jesus said to him....
  12. meluzina

    meluzina Well-Known Member

  13. bibax

    bibax Well-Known Member

    I make such errors because I am influenced by the Latin orthography.

    Latin appretiare (appretiatum, from pretium = price) = English to appreciate
    Latin pronuntiare (pronuntiatio) = English to pronounce (pronunciation)

    There is cee in English, where is tee in Latin.

    On the other side condition is condicio in Latin.

    I don't know it. English is not my mother tongue. I tried to choose the closest verb (at least ethymologically):

    ocenit (from cena) = to appreciate (from pretium = cena)
  14. bibax

    bibax Well-Known Member

    oceněny is passive (not past) participle

    ocenil, ocenila, ocenilo/oceněn, oceněna, oceněno are participles (past/passive). They express case and gender but not person. They are in fact something like adjectives:

    Já jsem ocenil. Já jsem oceněn. ...... Já jsem nemocen/nemocný.
    Já jsem ocenila. Já jsem oceněna. ...... Já jsem nemocna/nemocná.
  15. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Can I ask you, Bibax, where you learned Latin? In high school, college?
    It was never offered at any school I went to.
    I guess it is taught in the seminaries.
    Every priest should know latin.
    And probably taught in university to linguists.

    I think that is great that you know it.
    I think they tried to teach me once this sentence in latin.
    Celý Gaul je rozděliný(se rozdělí) do třech částů.
    Gaul is divided into three parts.
  16. bibax

    bibax Well-Known Member

    Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres, ... The whole of Gaul is divided into three parts, ... the first words of Caesar's Commentaries (Commentarii de bello Gallico).
  17. bibax

    bibax Well-Known Member

    I learned Latin in high (grammar) school (střední škola or gymnasium in Czech). Basic knowledge of Latin is required if you want to study medicine in an university.

    The first difficult lessons are full of Latin terms.
    For example in anatomy: manus dextra/sinistra, spina dorsalis, tibia, cranium, mandibula, femur, vertebrae, stomachus, ren, etc.

    We learned Classical Latin in gymnasium, of course. It is somewhat different from Ecclesiastic or medical Latin.
  18. meluzina

    meluzina Well-Known Member

    like i said i wasn't being critical

    the question with regard to appreciate and its use in this context was not aimed at you - more of a general question to the others actually

    one tends to see "appreciate" used more in the context of "appreciate someone's help", "appreciate the beauty of nature" - so definitely it does mean value - however in english, it doesn't quite fit in relation to a survey

    interesting to note also that if an item appreciates, e.g., " property appreciated 30%", it means that the item in question increased in value -
  19. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Perhaps, “one tends to say”. “Chce se” is really a strange buck-passing construction:

    chce se mi říci = it wants to me to say ~ I tend to say

    chce se mi spát = it wants to me to sleep ~ I feel sleepy

    chce se mi na záchod = it wants to me on toilet ~ I must go to the bathroom / I have to go

    nechce se mi jít ven = it doesn’t want to me to go out ~ I don’t feel like going out

    nechce se mi věřit = it doesn’t want to me to believe ~ I refuse to believe

    kalouskovské = Kalousekesque
    kafkovské = Kafkaesque
    einsteinovské = Einsteinian
    orwellovské = Orwellian/Orwellesque

    I have the very same problem. :D
    And it’s even worse – I have some basic knowledge of French, hence I tend to screw up all English words of Latin or French origin.

    I wish it was that way!

    Appreciate, price, prize, appraise – all of the same Latin origin pretium/appretiare.

    It should be “acknowledge” or “ speak/regard highly” or even “award”.

    I don’t want to dispraise the knowledge of bibax, but the fact is that Latin is rather easy for Czechs. :D

    I have another Latin sentence for you:

    Sed hoc tene, quod ř numquam scribas cum y.
    However, remember that ř is never written in association with y.

    (That’s from De orthographia bohemica supposedly by Jan Hus; only ḋ (ď) is replaced by ř.)
  20. rsalc1

    rsalc1 Well-Known Member

    meluzina: there are many uses of the English verb "appreciate" and you gave examples of the most common ones.

    I understood what bibax wrote about "people appreciated the book" in the context that "people rated the book highly" or "they had a high regard for the book" :)

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