Discussion in 'Vocabulary & Translation Help' started by dzurisova, Dec 3, 2009.

  1. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    I wasn't "right" hee hee I was just confused. Prepositions are such a nightmare in any language.

    Hee hee hee wer I had a similar conversation with some studens yesterday as we tried to figure out how Elves got from being about 6 feet tall in middle earth to a foot high in the North Pole.. unless everything in middle earth is miniature. Anyway I'm grateful to Lord of the Rings for making at least one bit of Christmas vocab easier :D And also making it clear that no one should mess with santa!

    I thought "na" here would mean something like "for the purpose of"

    Koupila jsem parek (akuzitiv) mamince (dativ) k Vánocům (dativ)
    i .........................................................jako vanoční darek (nominativ)


    Koupila jsem darek (akuzitiv) mamince (dativ) na Vánoce (akuzativ)

    (I know it's unusual to buy your mother a sausage, but the declination is easy)
  2. TomKQT

    TomKQT Well-Known Member

    Or poník.
    Holčička byla překvapená, když dostala k Vánocům poníka.

    Vánoce must be (well, should be :D) always with capital V, it's a name.

    Yes, they are all possible.
    You give (get) present "na Vánoce" or "k Vánocům" or "jako vánoční dárek".
    "Na Vánoce" is "when", as wer said. And this is imho why you can use it also for presents, because you get (give) them "when? - Na vánoce". It's quite clear that when you said this you mean you got it as a Christmas present. "K Vánocům" would be 100 % clear, however.
  3. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    Some interesting tips:

    (a) First identify the main clause. A main clause does not start with relative pronouns like který, nor does it start with a conjunction reporting time or circumstances (když, jakmile, jestli) nor a conjunction denoting a reported speech (že, zda, jestli).
    (b) Within a main clause, find a conjugated verb. If the verb is a helping verb (jsem, musím), find a participle (udělal) or the infintiive (studovat).
    (c) Once you have the verb, try to find the subject; in most cases, the subject is in the nominative case.
    (d) If you can guess the meaning of the verb, try to guess whether it refers to a situation where something or someone is affected (transitive) or not, i.e. whether the verb takes an object. In most cases, if it is a transitive verb, it takes the accusative case. If you can’t guess the meaning of the verb, try the other way around: see if you can find an accusative case to see if it’s transitive. Try to guess the meaning of the verb by looking at the subject and the object and the entire text segment.
    (e) When you are looking for the subject and/or the object of the verb, first concentrate on the nouns; then, try to see if there are modifiers (adjectives, possessive pronouns můj/náš, and ten) that provide additional information to the nouns.

    From here:

    I don't know if it would have been any good to you this time though!
  4. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Actually, it could mean "for the purpose of", but that’s less common usage. The most frequent interpretation is temporal as the preposition “na” is commonly used for holy days:

    na Vánoce
    na Velikonoce
    na Hromnice
    na svatého Jiří

    One párek are two sausages. :D (pár = pair, couple; párek = little pair, one pair of sausages)

  5. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Parek na obrázce mi připomíná parek, které jsem si kupoval ve vlakové stanici ve Frankfurt. :)....s bročny.
  6. TomKQT

    TomKQT Well-Known Member

    That's maybe the original meaning, but now párek can also mean 1 sausage, while a pair of them can be called 2 párky.

    This can cause some misuderstandings :lol:

    The best way is to specify the number of nožičky (?little legs?)
  7. ondras

    ondras Member

    Probably a stupid question, but is it grammatically correct to say:
    "Jeden párek jsou dva 'sosidže'" ?
    or probably a better example:
    "Rodina jsou rodiče a děti" (singular noun + plural verb)

    I mean, I know I would definitely not use
    "Rodina je rodiče a děti"

    but on the other hand, it "looks" as the grammatically correct form of the sentece (at least in my opinion).
  8. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Jeden párek jsou dvě nožičky.

    Yes — that’s correct.

    I remember it was discussed here before with no satisfactory conclusion. The usage of linking verb with inconsistences in gender/number seems be tricky in both Czech and English.

      On byl hvězda. (Why not “byla”?)
      Nůžky jsou nástroj. (Why not “je”?)
      Dva je/jsou dost. (Both seems OK.)
  9. jen

    jen Well-Known Member

  10. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    Isn't it! :) scrimshaw posted it originally, it's a link on My Czech Republic
  11. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Wer wrote....I remember it was discussed here before with no satisfactory conclusion. The usage of linking verb with inconsistences in gender/number seems be tricky in both Czech and English.

    On byl hvězda. (Why not “byla”?)
    Nůžky jsou nástroj. (Why not “je”?)
    Dva je/jsou dost. (Both seems OK.)

    A teď se vrátíme k něčem, který mě dlouho trapil.

    Co je odpověď otá to byl anebo byla. V tom připadě souhalsí sloveso s 'subject' or the 'noun'?

    Oni měli/o pět psů.?
  12. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    Scissors are plural in English as well.

    Where are the scissors? Where is the scissors? Both fine.

    I suppose maybe it's the two halves of it, like pants/trousers.

    byl goes with the "on" and not " hvězda
    This part I'm not sure of at all:
    The meaning wouldn't change if it was
    hvězda byl on
    but it would change if it was
    hvězda byla on

    There you'd be saying that that star.. somehow... anamorphasised into him? Would you? I dunno.. a star can't be a person, it might be different if it was something that a person could be such as a catholic, but then animate nouns differ in form maybe to avoid this kind of confusion. :S
    Think of byl as "he was" and "byla" as she was

    (him) Jack, he was a star.
    (him) Jack, she was a star.

    Or with some word in English that has Gender

    Jack (him), he was a woman!
    Jack (him), she was a woman!

    I for one would say it the first way, and then, once it was established that Jack was in fact Jackie start saying she.
    Natives, correct me! I'm probably believing* something completely wrong as usual.

    *example of somewhere you can use a state verb in its continuous form

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