end of demonstrative pronoun exercise

Discussion in 'Grammar & Pronunciation' started by Calvario, Nov 22, 2006.

  1. Calvario

    Calvario Well-Known Member

    11 Rozumíš TOMU? Ne, ale to udělám.
    Do you understand it? No, but I'll do it.

    12 TA slova nesmíte říkat.
    He's not allowed to say those words

    13 Studentům dají tohle i tamtu knihu.
    They are giving this and also that book to the students.

    I do not think this is correct.

    14 Jsou TI profesoři nebo studenti?
    Are they the profesors or the students?

    15 S TÍM nebudou mít problemý.
    They will not be having problems with that.

    Thanks,
    Calvario
     
  2. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Calvario
    I would say this about exercises.

    Jsou to profesoři nebo studenti.
    Because, ´´they´´ at the beginning of the sentence is still very vague, no gender yet.

    To je kniha. That is a book. (now we know what gender ´´that´´ is, and we can refer to it as feminine).
    To je hrad, auto, škola(masculine,neuter,feminine)

    **I gladly look forward to any corrections about my theories.

    Nerozumíš tomu. Yes rozumět and some other verbs take the dative instead of accusative like in english.
    Pomůžeš mi?=Will you help me?
    Věř mi!=Believe me!

    Studentům dají tohle i tamtu knihu.
    To the students hey give this and that book.(tohle refers to a masculine noun right? not another book?)

    Tím nebudou mít problémy. (s is implied in this case I think)
     
  3. Calvario

    Calvario Well-Known Member

    Well scrimshaw lets give this another whirl.

    #13 I think your right. It should be, I think, Studentům dají TUHLE i TAMTU knihu. Knihu is feminine accusative so using tohle, which is neuter is not right.

    # 14 TO is singular neuter, profesoři is plural M animate. So we need a plural dem. pronoun TÍ. As for the neutality of their gender I think we might consider this. Profesor= a male professor Profesorka=female professor. Profesoři= more than one male professor and profesorky(I think)=more than one female professor. Since the sentence uses the masculine plural I thought I should use TÍ. Hopefully though someone can clear this up because you made a good point about the vagueness of the genger. If it's a mixed gender group then what demonstrative pronoun would you use?

    # 15 The S is in the sentence out of my book. The implied S is, I believe, when "S" means "by means of" as in "He is writting with a pen". Píše perem.

    Thanks for your imput.

    Calvario
     
  4. Wicker808

    Wicker808 Well-Known Member

    Calvario,

    You've mistranslated number 12. The corect translation is "You are not allowed to say those words."

    Number 13 would be better translated as "They will give this and also that book to the students."

    Number 13 as "Studentům dají tohle i tamtu knihu," isn't necessarily wrong, depending on what you want to say. Using a feminine demonstrative adjective here ("tuhle") would be translated as "this (book)." Using a neuter demonstrative pronoun ("tohle") would be translated as "this (thing that I'm pointing at)." So it depends if the students will get two books, or if they will get one book and something else.

    I agree with Scrimshaw's evaluation of number 14. In this case, use "to" instead of "ti." Like I said in my last post, "to je" and "to jsou" correspond to "That/it is" and "Those/they are," regardless of the gender of the noun. "Ti profesoři" would mean "Those (concrete) professors," which is not what you want to say. You can however say "Jsou to ti profesoři..." which would mean "Are they those professors..." It's confusing because this is one situation where you must resist the temptation to decline the pronoun to agreement with the noun.

    Your number 15 is correct. Scrimshaw is correct that "s" before instrumental can sometimes be omitted and sometimes needs to be omitted, but not here. Thus, "to have a problem with something" is "mít problém s něčím." However, you have a typo: the word is "problémy," not "problemý."
     
  5. Calvario

    Calvario Well-Known Member

    Great! Thanks for your help Wicker. I see what you are saying about

    #13. It really could go both ways tohle or tuhle depending on what you mean. One thing though. You said it would be better translated "They will give..." Can you in fact not use po/pu or futre tense být with a verb and still speak of the future?

    #14 I understand what you mean. Is it a general rule to use the masculine when refering to an unspecified group? What about a mixed gender group?

    Thanks,
    Calvario
     
  6. Wicker808

    Wicker808 Well-Known Member

    In Czech, like in a lot of European languages, masculine gender is the "default." So if you have a group of both male and female students, you will refer to them as "studenti."

    Using the prefixes po-/pů- for future tense only works with a handful of irregular verbs, mostly verbs of motion. Using the future of být (budu, budeš, etc.) for future tense only works with imperfective verbs. The verb dát, to give, as used in that sentence, is perfective, therefore as conjugated it is already future. The difference between imperfective and perfective verbs is called aspect. There have beens some threads on this board devoted to that subject.
     

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