GENITIVE: If so why?

Discussion in 'Grammar & Pronunciation' started by Calvario, Nov 27, 2006.

  1. Calvario

    Calvario Well-Known Member

    I came across a declined word I am trying to figure out. "týdne" is this declined from "týden" meaning week.

    Here is the sentence I found it in.
    Musíme to dokončit dokonce TOHO týdne.

    I was supposed to add the dem. pronoun to the sentence.

    "We even have to finish it this week". IS THIS RIGHT??

    I found a reference to týden being declined as a soft noun. Is this correct?

    If I'm right at all please explain why it is in the genitive. If I'm wrong then what does it mean and what is it declined from then.

  2. Wicker808

    Wicker808 Well-Known Member


    I would write the sentence like this:

    Musíme to dokončit do konce tohoto týdne.
    We have to finish it by the end of this week.

    That is, "do konce" (to the end) instead of "dokonce" (even). Also "tohoto týdne" (of this week).

    Týden, like den, has a slightly odd declination. Genitive is týdne, although colloquially I've also seen it as týdnu. Genitive is used because it has a posessive relationship with the preceding substantive, "konec."
  3. Calvario

    Calvario Well-Known Member

    I'm laughing right now because I remember when I saw the sentence originally that I thought it was two words, there was a space between them. But due to my small vocabulary I put the two words together to make a word I knew.

    Being in the genitive makes complete sense now, "do" is a preposition that declines to the G. I did read that týdnu was in the dative and locative.

    Thanks for your help,
  4. Qcumber

    Qcumber Well-Known Member

    Just a remark in passing. Do prepositions decline in Czech? :?
    Generally, a preposition is an invariable word that governs the declension of the nominal phrase that it introduces.
    For instance, you could say: "this preposition governs the genitive"; "that preposition governs the dative", etc.
    Also, the preposition itself is often governed by the verbal phrase, so, one will have the following concatenation: "this verb governs the preposition P that governs the case C." :)
  5. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    No, prepositions do not decline (at least I've never seen one that does).

    Yes, there are verbs for which certain prepositions are used, so in that sense, a preposition may be governed by the verbal phrase in which it lies. Sometimes also, the form of declension the preposition takes depends on the verbal phrase as well. Ex: "Byli jsme v Americe." (v + locative) vs. "Jedeme v Ameriku." (v + accusative).
  6. Karel_lerak

    Karel_lerak Well-Known Member

    Correct is "Jedeme do Ameriky". If you want to express direction, you never use "in", use "do" instead.

    where you go to:
    do Prahy
    do lesa
    do Ameriky
    do prdele :)

    where you are
    v lese
    v Americe
    v Praze
    v prdeli
  7. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Never say never :wink:. It is'nt incorrect, only archaic. I agree it sounds weird in jedeme v Ameriku, but forms like v město or v les are relatively frequent. In nowadays Czech the do-construction prevails when speaking about direction, and the v-construction prevails when speaking about change into new state. Sometimes both forms are common (e.g. vstoupit do stavu manželského × vstoupit v stav manželský).

    S. K. Neumann

    Všel poutník v město starobylé,
    běda mu,
    všel poutník v město starobylé,
    běda mu,
    tu před paláci kvetly sny
    a rudé růže nad trny,
    běda mu, běda mu, běda.

    Město Er
    J. Kainar

    Včera k loutnám půlnočním
    k lásce usnul mladý král
    vešel v město jménem ER
    zabloudil a ono spalo
  8. eso

    eso Well-Known Member

    Really frequent? I believe, I never heard or read it in anything younger than 50 years.
  9. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    I wrote relatively frequent (and I wrote also it is archaic and the do-construction prevails). :wink:

    relatively - to a certain degree, especially when compared with other things of the same kind

    P.S. the Kainar's text is younger than 50 years :wink:
  10. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    Oh man, now I'm embarrassed. :oops: I mixed up Czech with Russian (again). Yes, of course you're right: "do Ameriky" is correct Czech. Here's perhaps a better example of what I meant: "Sedím si na divan" vs. "Sedím na divanu."
  11. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Oh, out of the frying pan into the fire 8). Sedám si na divan or sednu si na divan but never sedím si na divan. The verb sedět (= sit or better be seated) is never used with directions.
  12. Karel_lerak

    Karel_lerak Well-Known Member

  13. Karel_lerak

    Karel_lerak Well-Known Member

    I disagree that both forms are common, may be a long time ago, not today (or in the last 50 years) :)
    Of course you can find such examples in poetry, but there is possible, what is impossible in spoken language.

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