Is Jesus accepted in Cz

Discussion in 'Culture' started by Kevinvsn13, Nov 14, 2006.

  1. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    The most common are Oecumenic translation (Ekumenický překlad) and Bible Kralická and its modern variations.

    The best on-line version I found is
  2. michal7

    michal7 Active Member

    Dekuju vam mnohokrat!
  3. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    As far as I know, there are 2 modern bibles. One is a catholic and one protestant. The protestant one is “Ekumenicke vydani”, you can tell the difference on the cover, it has “BIBLE”. The catholic one has “BIBLE" and a cross.
  4. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    No, dzurisovak, Ekumenický překlad is used by both catholics and protestants (see meaning of Oecumenism). It's even a translation recommended by Czech Catholic Church.
    At home I have only one Bible. That's Bible Kralická. On the cover there's title "Biblí svatá" and a big cross. Bible Kralická is definitely protestant (It's the Bible of Bohemian Brethren).
    Dzurisovak, Czech protestants are more restrained than catholics, they prefer a simple cross without figure of Christ on it etc, but they don't abominate cross. Czech and American protestants are different.

    Czech churches are relatively cooperative since they all together are in a minority. They have no problem to share their Bibles.
  5. Callisto

    Callisto New Member

    inappropriate? the quote "jesus will save you" is inappropriate, not what people answer to it, this person seems to be telling non believers that they are lacking something, doing something wrong, inferior, ... thus they need to be "saved"

    I do try to see religious people as benevolent, but they mostly end up being intolerant, demonizing, hypocritical, agressive, devoid of any self criticism haters (I'm taking here about the converters, who don't leave people in peace, not the "I believe in god/something, but don't go to church" kind)

    to all those self proclaimed christians, follow Jesus' words, stop falling back on the intolerent teachings of the old testament, if anything jesus seems to be reacting against what's written in it
  6. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    Yes, we have the Bibli svata in our home as well. However, I believe it is an old version. I believe Bible Kralicka is "King's Bible" and it is in old Czech. A while back, my husband explained to me that 5 or so groups from Catholic and Protestant got together to come up with the newer versions. Yes they worked together, but there is still a Protestant and Catholic Bible. The Catholic Bible has more books between the old and new testament.

    That would make sense. However, I would believe that the Catholic Church would want their parishioners to have the Catholic bible since there are more books in it than the Protestant Bible. I believe the New and Old Testaments are the same, only the Catholic Bible has extra books between them whereas the Protestants do not accept those books. Also I would think that the Protestant churches would not want their parishioners to have a Catholic bible because the parishioners might take the extra books as gospel whereas the Protestant Churches do not believe it is gospel.

    Now, perhaps parishioners in general do not care about which bible they get. My husband (although protestant) has a Czech catholic bible because years ago he could not find a different one in his town. He simply ignored the extra books between the Old and New Testament. For the same reason (lack of availability) he bought the King's Bible. That was the first one he could obtain and he didn't like the old Czech so as soon as he found the newer version Catholic bible, he bought it. It wasn't until later he was able to obtain a Protestant newer version.

    So, just like in my husband's case, perhaps it only appears that Czechs do not care if they have a Catholic or Protestant bible. Perhaps they do care and simply take what is available to them. It's not like Bibles are sold in every store there like it is here in the States. We have bibles in every Wal-Mart, Meijer, Sam's Club, Rite Aid, Walgreens, etc.
  7. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    No, Bible Kralická isn't King's Bible. It's called Kralická since it was printed in the town of Kralice (so, maybe Bible of Kralice). Bible Kralická is definitely different from catholic Bible. All catholic Bibles are derived from Latin Vulgata. Bible Kralická is translation of original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts including Apocrypha and Deuterocanonical books.
    The first version was gradually published between the years 1579 and 1593. There were also notes and exegesis - i.e. this Bible Kralická is much more exhaustive than catholic Bibles.
    The most common is the third edition from 1613 and its modern revision (my Bible is such revision :wink:). This edition is of classic extent.

    For a long time, Bible svatováclavská (Bible of Saint Wenceslaus) was official Czech catholic Bible. That's translation of Vulgata published between years 1677 and 1715, but it is not widespread nowadays.
    I know Ekumenický překlad Písma (1961-1979) is recommended by Catholic Church since 1985. I admit I've no idea what was the most used version before 1985, I've no catholic relatives.

    Dzurisovak, don't jump to conclusion that Czech protestant (Hussites, Bohemian Brethern...) and American protestants (Anglicans, Lutherans, Calvinists, Quakers...) have something more in common than rejection of catholicism. In some aspects, Czech protestants are more dogmatic than catholics :wink:.
  8. DanielZ

    DanielZ Well-Known Member

    My Czech Bible, on its blue cover, is entitled "Bible," in gold letters, attended by a gold cross.

    The title page reads,


    Písmo Svaté
    Starého a Nového Zakona
    (včetně deuterokanonických knih)

    Český ekumenický překlad

    Česká Biblická Společnost

    The Přemluva, Forward, is cowritten by

    Pavel Smetana

    synodní senior
    Českobraterské církve evangelické
    a předseda Ekumenické rady církví v ČR


    kardinál Miloslav Vlk
    arcibiskup pražský

    I can find no "Imprimatur" however. That is quite odd, to me.

    Despite that, this Czech bible matches, book for book, my "Holy Bible: New Revised Standard Version; with Apocrypha (1989), which carries the:

    Most Rev. Daniel E. Pilarczyk
    President, National Conference of Catholic Bishops

    I hope this will help clarify some of the issues being discussed here.

  9. gypzy

    gypzy Well-Known Member

    Now that the issue of Bibles has been brought up, I have a few :?: s. Do hotels and waiting rooms at doctors or hair salons have Gideons Bibles? Or Bibles provided by groups similar to Gideons?
    Just FYI--Gideons are a missionary group that started in America that provided Bibles to hotels. Now they have branched out to missionary work around the world and providing Bibles to people in other countries.
    Do people who attend Church bring their own Bibles or do they use Bibles in that are in the Church? Is there a childrens illustrated Bible in Czech? How in America can someone attain a Bilbe written in Czech? I asked at the Christian bookstore in town. I was told that thier supplier doesn't supply it. The clerk gave me a website address, but I lost it since I didn't have a credit card at the time.

    Sorry for all the questions,
  10. eso

    eso Well-Known Member

    Waiting rooms haven't bibles. Hotels probably have, but only big and with foreign clientele, I suppose
  11. eso

    eso Well-Known Member

    I found Rodinná bible (Family bible) and Bible pro nejmenší (Bible for children) on Luxor website (it's the biggest bookshop in central Europe), but they are sold out. sell abroad (They have even children bibles) , but their postal fees are quite high.
  12. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    I believed it to be the Kings Bible because I believed it to be a Czech version of the King Jame's Bible which was also written in the 1600's. Are you saying that a bible written in the 1600's is modern Czech? Or are you saying that there is a revised verson of Bible Kralicka that is in modern Czech but the name was not changed?

    I'm confused by this last quote. Are you saying that the only thing Czech Protestants and American protestants have in common are rejection of the Catholic church? If so, then yes, I have jumped to the conclusion that they have a lot more in common and still jump to that conclusion since I have met some Czech protestants and we have more in common than that. :?:

    In many aspects American protestants are more dogmatic that Catholics. Many American Catholics merely claim to be Catholic and don't know much about the Church and why they believe what the Church tells them to believe. Many only go to church on Christmas and Easter. Whereas, many protestants go to church each week, know the scriptures as to why they believe what they do, and are much more strict with their religion than Catholics. :)
  13. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Yes, and not only one, and not only Czech.
    Yes, that wasn't precise statement. I was thinking only of their origin (history). Naturally, all christians have a lot in common.
    And here I was thinking of interpretation of Bible, not of way of practising.
    E.g. the catholic dogma says that human will is free, but Jan Hus, a crucial person of Czech protestantism, stated that human will is fully determined by God.
  14. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    Oh, thanks for the clarification Wer, that makes more sense.
  15. BlackBox

    BlackBox Active Member

    But you are asking me to do exactly what I am warning people not to do. I do not need alternative theory to believe that your theory is wrong. Because you have no other explanation, that does not mean your theory is correct.
    This is a common fallacy of people, as they want explanation of things, no matter what. I am not afraid to say: I don't know.

    It is easy to make theory that sounds plausible. For example you could say that "Czechs are atheist because of communism". That makes some sense as communists were against religion.
    However, when you think about it you will probably realize, that communists were not so powerful as to make people into atheists.

    Your own theory (althought you probably haven't invented it as I have heard it before) basically states: people were killling each other over the communion rite for so long, that they stopped believing in Christ whatsoever. That does not sound all that persuasive to me.
  16. BlackBox

    BlackBox Active Member

    So to answer your question, I do not know why Czechs are atheists. However I already hinted at another theory, that people were turning from god after WWII (and I suppose the same after WWI) by hundreds, because "there cannot be god in a world of such horrors". That said, I cannot confirm this with certainty I only heard about this phenomenon, and of course it doesn't explain why Czechs in particular should be like that. Census numbers, if they are to be believed, indicate that Czechs changed to atheists during first part of 20th century.
  17. eso

    eso Well-Known Member

    No, this is theory of historians.

    My own personal theory is, that people were fed with so many ideologies, that they started be tired of it. And when they realized that their living conditions are equal like at their believing neighbours, they considered religion as non-essential.

    But it's IMHO of course.

    And to your another topic - I am not afraid to say: I don't know, too. But it didn't mean, that I don't try to get answers.

    There is saying (it's common in CR - but maybe has other origin):

    Není hloupý ten, kdo něco neví,
    ale ten, kdo vědět nechce.
  18. DanielZ

    DanielZ Well-Known Member


    Thanks for that proverb. I hadn't heard that one yet. It rolls off the tongue wonderfully. Also, it is a good lesson for word order.

  19. fabik317

    fabik317 Well-Known Member

    To the original poster (sorry if this is an oversimplification):

    Jesus is not accepted in the CR, he is, however, widely tolerated.
  20. BMoody

    BMoody Well-Known Member

    Not to put a damper on the debate over why much of Europe is atheist, but I am a history student and us historians have some good theories on it.

    Christianity used to be linked back to Rome alone, however kingdoms wanted their own autonomy and thus linked the true will of God to their kingdom's ruler. For instance, Anglicanism and independant Catholic states.

    The French Revolution hinted at the a similar shift. People put faith in their system of government and rights rather than their king or Rome. Yet, the French Revolution's push for an enlightenment government essentially failed again and again. Faith in the divine had already been smashed by bad rulers, and then the failed enlightenment governments further sealed the deal. (Much of the French Revolution was keeping Protestants and Catholics from killing eachother I might add, but it was a period of change away from religion as well.) Additionally, the new rights that were in place to allow freedom of religion allowed freedom of personal inquiry into faith. This loosens government control and people didn't have to be a practising Christian.

    Moreover, come the end of WW1, the hope in human technology and nationalism had faded. Humanity had learned not to trust popes or kings or even democracy without vigilance, yet a loss of hope in technology and humanity itself really struck a blow to faith in general. This is when we get existentialists like Kafka, and dissollutioned writers like T.S. Elliot. Romanticism and nationalism seemed dead.

    After WW1, people slowly put more faith in technology again, and even back into nationalism. With the rise of the national socialism, and end of WW2, many nations lost faith in the two once again. The long Cold War to follow further cemented faith in technology under.

    Why mention such? Well, the slow chissling away at our faith in a higher power of any kind has opened the way for existentialists and modernist view points. We have become skeptics in the true spirit of the Enlightenment though. The Czechs have a long history, if not one of the oldest, of the existentialist thought, and I would be willing to link the Czech roots of this all the way back to Jan Hus's period. After so much death and futility to decide what people are right, and what religion is right, might one just say "who gives a damn?!" I think that's really the Czech attitude and origins.

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