Is Jesus accepted in Cz

Discussion in 'Culture' started by Kevinvsn13, Nov 14, 2006.

  1. BlackBox

    BlackBox Active Member

    You are not saying I am someone like that, are you?
  2. eso

    eso Well-Known Member

    It definitely wasn't my intention. It really is common proverb.
    Beside, I don't know you, so how I could assess you?

    Judge not, that ye be not judged.
  3. eso

    eso Well-Known Member

  4. kristene

    kristene New Member

    Hey all...
    I'm going to the Czech Republic on foreign exchange this summer and this topic has been a great concern for me. I will be staying with a host family and am a fairly devout Catholic. Would it be too much to ask if I were to request they drop me off at a church for the three Sundays that I am there so I can attend Mass? Or at least direct me to one? More importantly, in a small city or mid-size town setting, what are the odds of their being a Catholic church in the area?

  5. plch

    plch Member

    Would it be too much to ask if I were to request they drop me off at a church for the three Sundays that I am there so I can attend Mass? Or at least direct me to one? More importantly, in a small city or mid-size town setting, what are the odds of their being a Catholic church in the area?

    I wouldn't worry: Catholic churches are everywhere, every village/small town have at least one and, probably, you wouldn't have problem reaching one after a short walk.
    BTW: In Moravia people still attend mass rather often on Sunday, in Bohemia, especially in Prague, people are in general less religious.
  6. geauxboy

    geauxboy Well-Known Member

    This is an extremely interesting topic.

    I, myself, do not care for organized religion at all. I find it oppessive, dominating, and in some cases, completely full of fear tactics. The self impossed judgement thought to be every Christians right towards "others" is an absolute joke too. The very idea that Christianity defies most scientific proof shows me that there are subjects that are being stifled by the Church. If you are censored from most the facts, you cannot come up with a true answer.

    I can't say that I am an Atheist, but I do dabble in Buddhism. It's not that I believe in everything they teach, but atleast they are willing to adhear to scientific proof. That shows a more open mind right there in which the majority of the Christian community has their blinders on.

    Ultimately, my main reason for not being in an organized religion and more on a Buddhist side is my firm belief that we are energy. This stems from having many relatives still on the Indian reservations here in the States. I learned much about spirituality (not from a Christianity viewpoint) through shamanism. I also learned of the crimes commited against the native Indians in the name of God and Christianity. Doesn't give me any reason to respect a people that kill in the name of their God.

    I don't mean to offend anyone, it's just my opinions.
  7. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    I'm not offended. But here's a different perspective. It seems to me more closed minded to only believe in what can be proven through science.

    This is very sad that people would commit crimes in the name of Christianity and you should not respect those people. However, I could kill someone today and claim to do it in the name of Buddhism but that doesn't mean I'm following the teachings of Buddhism. Just as those who committed those crimes in the name of Christianity were not following the teachings of Christ.

    You are accusing Christians of being closed minded with blinders on. However, at the same time you have failed to open your mind/eyes to see the things I have pointed out to you.
  8. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    Just another thought. Many Japanese are Buddhist. Not only did they invade China for land (WWII) but they also committed many war crimes during that time such as the Nanking Massacre.

    In no way am I defending what White Europeans did to the Native Americans. I'm simply pointing out that it is closed minded to blame Christianity for it.
  9. geauxboy

    geauxboy Well-Known Member

    You have taken me to literally as I never said that I ONLY believe in what can be proven through science. I merely stated that they aren't closed up about aknowleging scienctific proof.

    To say that I am closed minded before I get to respond is jumping the gun quite a bit. I haven't failed. I see your point, and I understand what you are trying to say. You are right, people all around the world commit crimes and say they did it in the name of Christianity or Buddhism or whatever. It's not right and it is sad that people would do these things. In my opinion, it's a lack of taking responsiblity for your own actions to say the least.

    You have pointed out a flaw in my post and I appreciate your attention to detail. Maybe I should have kept in more in a general context. I should just say that I find it very disturbing that people would use God/Allah as a reason/excuse to commit these actions.

    Also, I don't remember hearing that the Japanese masacred the Chinese in the name Buddha. There are many different "sects" of Buddhism. Maybe this "sect" did do it in the name of Buddha. I know, throughout Japanese history, there have been many violent actions, but I'm not sure if they committed these acts in the name of Buddha. If I am wrong, please correct me as I am not a historian.

    The Naking Massacre is something that I try to tell fellow Americans about because it is something that wasn't taught to us in school. Atleast not in my area. Not many know about it. It was a horrible and sad act that is unjustifiable in my opinion. Only now are the Japanese aknowleging it.

    Again, I am not closed minded but I will admit that I may be focusing on Christianity because it is a prominant event that happened in my ancestors lives. As time has gone on, I have tried to put it at ease. Even some of my relatives are letting it go and maybe I should too.

    Does this sound closed minded?
  10. craigmc

    craigmc Member

    i was going to try and read the whole thread before i replied but theres one or two comments i want to make before i forget them, by the way i am aithiest and from the uk

    in the first reply, it was a lovely story and shows how nice and respectful czech people can be but then you say your husband was "saved" when he found god? as previously stated what was he saved from? what is so wrong in not believing in god, i know you havnt said there is something wrong in not believing but by using the word "saved" you have implied there is!

    eso: i loved your 1st post i enjoy learning about different cultures i havnt read the diaries you linked yet (im in work! ha) but i will try to get round to it.

    wanda: im really dissapointed in your post! how can your views be so blinkered? islam is not an evil religion! no religion is fundmentaly evil but as in all walks of life certain people interpret things differently and distort things for their own gain! you worship the same god as muslims do! throught their whole history muslims in the middle east an places like pakistan and afghanistan have come under constant attack they just wanted to be left alone but if it wasnt the roman catholic church attacking them it was the british, french, dutch and other western european countries seeking to build empires then russians.....etc

    i have great sympathy for what happened on 9/11 but you can not tar all islamist with the same brush! how many christian militias are there operating in america? look at the KKK christians???? hmmmm

    as ive said im an athiest but i have respect for other people and respect their beliefs but it riles me when i see comments like wandas and people saying jesus will save me! why is your religion so much better than others? you basically riped off all your beliefs from hundreds of other religions not one single part of your religion is unique!

    im sorry for ranting, im gonna read on now, if reply again and rant again i apologise in advance! haha
  11. craigmc

    craigmc Member

    i like to just believe in things that can be proven, but im not blind to see that people get things wrong i am open to different interpretations and learning knew things

    but one thing that i really dont like about religion is the belief in creationism and willingness to except "miracles" with no proof

    scientists, archaeologists, scholars of all kinds have worked hard for so long to try to explain things and work out how our world came to be but most religions brush it off because they would rather believe a few stories written thousends of years ago.

    the modern day bible was written by a roman emperor about 400 years after "jesus" was said to have lived and was taken from scrolls that where not written until roughly 40 years after "jesus" died. now think logically you tell a story a friend, he tells another friend, he writes it down, another person reads that they try to write it down else where its gets distorted, bits exagerated bits missed out others added, now think back how the world was 2000 years ago, no records kept, no computers no secure way of comunicating how true do you think the bible is?

    i know a lot of religions dont follow their holy books word for word but i still dont understand how people can neglect fact in favour of beliefs thousends of years out of date

    how do you explain evolution?

    another think that really does p*ss me off (sorry) is when a family member or even yourself is ill, you pray to god they get better! hmmm

    never mind all the hard work put in by the docters, the nurses, the scientists....etc obviously it was you talking to yourself in a quite room that saved that person!

    im sorry if ive offended people but they are some of my views im not trying to force them on people just showing how people forcing theirs on me gets to me!

    sorry if i come accross like a bit of a hitler im really an easy going person just religion winds me up!

    ps: wanda: good and evil? the devil? if somebody came out with stuff like that and never tried to pass it off as religious belief they would be found insane and sent to and institution!
  12. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    geauxboy, I did not say that you were a closed minded person. I don't know you and you might be generally an open minded person. I simply said that the statements you made were closed minded because they failed to look at the other perspectives such as the ones I pointed out to you. I was saying that it was closed minded not to see these things on your own. However, I'm glad you are open minded enough to see them after they are pointed out to you.

    I don't know if the Naking Massacre was done in the name of Buddhism. But many of the people doing those crimes were Buddhist. Some of the many crimes that were done to the Native Americans were also not done in the name of Christianity. The only ones I know about that were actually done in the name of Christianity were forcing the Native Americans to live in square houses, dress in western attire, and attend Christian schools. (not that these acts aren't significant because they are) Perhaps you can educate me if there are others. I think many people tried to justify their horrid acts by stating that the Native Americans were heathens anyhow but I don't think they claimed they were doing those things for Christ. Let me know if I'm missing something.

    I understand that it can be hard to be open to a group of people that committed such horrid acts to your ancestors. Especially when you may have come into contact with some "so called" Christians who may not behave very Christ like. However, it takes a lot to realize that there are things you need to let go of and that is the first step. I commend you for doing that.

    It is also hard for me to not harbor hard feelings toward Muslims given the 911 attacks and the continued threat against terrorism. I have to pray that God will give me the love for them that He holds.

    craigmc, you asked me (I suppose you meant me) why I could say my husband got saved. Well that is the terminology of our religion. If it offends you, you can't change the terminology of a whole religion so you have to make a choice to be offended or live with it in peace. Also, it is the terminology my husband chooses to use. Obviously he believes he was saved from something because he uses the term that he "got saved". I don't see why you would allow yourself to get offended by someone believing and stating that they were saved from something. Whether you believe they were saved from something or not, it seems as if you are only hurting yourself by allowing yourself to be offended by them believing it.

    Many Christians feel these days that they can not openly profess their faith because others get offended by it. However, I don't see why people can't just be open minded enough to allow others to believe a certain way and express that believe without getting offended. I hate the stifling of freedom of speech. My husband and I believing we are saved from something hurts no one around us. Why is it then, when we profess it, others get offended. I never asked anyone on this board to abandon their beliefs and accept mine. I simply stated mine and some how that offended you because you believe that I am wrong. Yet you, who got offended, feel free to state your beliefs and ask that no one get offended. :?: :?: :?:

    craigmc, why does it piss you off that other's pray for healing. Does it hurt you in anyway? It doesn't piss me off that a shaman would pray to some spirit in a mountain or something like that. It doesn't affect me. How is it that my prayers harm you? You ask how we can believe in the bible given the way it was written. It's called faith. We understand that there could have been lots of changes given that humans wrote it. But we believe by faith that God had his hand every translation and writing of the Word. We believe by faith that God spoke to those writing the Word and made sure that His Word was taken care of through the years and what we have today before us in the form of a Bible is exactly what God Himself wants us to have. It's simply called faith such as prayer for healing. If you are really as open minded and accepting of others you would simply disagree and not allow it to bother you, piss you off, or offend you. You would simply, as many of my Czech atheist friends and family, allow me to have my views and express my views as long as I don't try to force you to also believe my views.

    Ok, so that's my ranting. I hope it wasn't too long.
  13. geauxboy

    geauxboy Well-Known Member

    The whole praying thing is something that I have grown to accept. I meditate, others pray. There really is no difference as far wanting answers or help. Prayer is asking an outsider for help, meditation asks yourself for help. I may be attached to a higher source, but I am also independent and act accordingly. To credit God/Jesus for helping you through a situation is completely discrediting yourself for your own abilities. Go ahead, pray away. That's fine. Just give yourself a bit of credit. The more and more you are cognizant of that fact, the more independent you become. I'm not saying detach yourself from God/Jesus. I am saying that God/Jesus can still be with you, but just understand that you can do more than you think.

    I am no where near trying to say I am right. I DON'T have the answers (or atleast the right ones). Do any of us?

    Here's the way I see it. As I have stated before, we are made up of energy. You have control over the energies you harness and the energies you project out. The mind is a very powerful thing. A placibo is the perfect example. Your mind THINKS it's a pill to help your condition, but the pill doesn't contain a bit of medicinal herbs or drugs. But, you got better didn't you? Trust yourself. Do we really think that God built us without the ability to think and do for ourselves? We'd be nothing more than a toddler that needs to be changed, dressed and fed all the time without ever being able to do it yourself.

    We are born. Our parents raise us by feeding, clothing and teaching us. During this time, we look to our parents for help and answers. Then, we leave the nest and go on our own. From time to time, we will talk to our parents for some more help and answers. After a while, the time you look to your parents for anything dwindles. We learn that we can do it ourselves and gain the confidence to work through a problem ourselves. Talking to God/Jesus is the same as talking to your parents. You have to cut the umbilicle cord sooner or later. It's not to suggest that you shouldn't talk to your parent or God anymore, it's just that you don't need to refer to them as much.
  14. geauxboy

    geauxboy Well-Known Member

    Dzurisovak, I think I am still having a hard time trying to figure out how I am being closed minded. I may be focusing my dislike for the Christian community, but that is just staying in line with the topic. The topic concerns Christianity and I am going with that. Up to this point, no one really mentioned anything else except for Christianity. So to say that I am being closed minded kinda confuses me. Don't worry. I get confused easily. I know it's not only Christianity that committs these wrongs, it's just that the subject is about Christianity.

    It's all good though. That's what discussions are for.

    Neither of us apparently know if the Naking Masacre was done in the name of Buddhism so we'll leave this subject alone until we can learn more about. I will say, however, I really would surprised if they did do it in the name of Buddha.

    Just a few examples to further my distain for the Christian community is the language issue. I am Native Indian and a Cajun from Southern Louisiana. While my parent were in school, they had Cajun AND Indian speaking teachers and most of the students only understood one or both. English came third for most. It was very prominent. I grew up learning Indian and Cajun before I learned English, but not in school. That was stifled by a local group that said speaking these languages, more importantly, native indian was thought to be talk of the Devil. Now, was this group Christian or Catholic? Both. My father (actually his father) changed our last name to avoid persecution. That is enough for me to have a dislike for them. To be forced to change your family name to appease outsiders is rather arrogant to me and a lack of brotherhood not to mention down right blinded by their version of "right".

    I really can't speak my natives toungues anymore because you can actually be arrested in some parts for speaking Indian. Cajun speakers regained their language after MANY years in court. I lose more and more of my heritage and background due to these groups who want to have everything their way. Who came first to those areas? Christians? I don't think so. So, these outsiders come in, in the name of Christ, and force the natives (French, Spanish, Creoles, Cajuns and Indians) to speak THEIR language. English isn't even the native toungue of America.

    Are other groups, religious or non religious, involved in my past? Sure. As I said before, this topic is about Christianity and I stayed within the topic for my original post. I could have mentioned others, but I didn't want to send the topic askew. Maybe that's where we went wrong with my post. Maybe it's something that I still don't understand, but I hope you now understand why I focused on Christianity.

    The whole Muslim/911 topic is too far off topic, but I am willing to talk about that if you want to start another thread.

    BTW, it says you are in Michigan. I go to my bother's house just outside Detroit to meet with the direct decendant to Sitting Bull's Medicine Man a couple times a year to do a sweatlodge.
  15. Ceit

    Ceit Well-Known Member

    I doubt the Nanking Massacre had anything to do with any religion, just expansionism. The state religion of Japan was Shintoism anyway, until after WWII, and if I'm not mistaken most Japanese today identify themselves as a mix of Buddhist and Shintoist.

    From what I've seen, the most easily offended people when it comes to open expression of faith are Americans (well, and Islamists, but let's leave them aside for a moment). No matter what you say, somebody will be offended because they feel like you're forcing your beliefs on them :roll: . Most Europeans seem more laid can say whatever you want about your god(s) as long as you don't try to make me say it too. Hey, I just thought of something - are there religion classes in public schools or can religion only be taught in a private, religious school? In the US public schools can't teach religion, although I've heard of Biblical literature classes, and I understand in Spain students get to choose between religion and ethics classes. How do the Czechs spread morality among the youth?? :p
  16. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry, I didn't say you are being closed minded. I said the statements that you made first were closed minded. However, you were very open to a new perspected once I presented it so I am not saying you are closed minded. In fact, through the rest of your posts, it appears that you are an intelligent person with an ability to debate without getting defensive or angry. I admire that quality because it is not found in many people these days.

    That makes sense. Thanks for pointing that out.

    Do you mind me asking when this took place?

    Once again, when could one be arrested for speaking a different language? And this was in the States? Wow, I would be very interesting in reading about this. My passion during college was to study the Civil Rights Movement (I majored in sociology & psychology). This is one area of civil rights I missed. If you know of websites where I can read about this, please let me know.

    I really have no desire to debate that issue on this website. I was simply pointing out how in some way I can relate with your issue.

    One of my best friends is half Native American. I've gone to a couple of Pow Wows in the Grand Haven area with her. That's on the west side of the State. They were pretty interesting.
  17. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    My Bible tells me that without Christ I am nothing. He is my all. He even supplies the very air that I breath. He gave me life, He breathed His own breath into my lungs that I may live.

    I am confident that I can work through problems myself. For God/Christ/Holy Spirit is a gentleman and He will not force himself on anyone. (Which is why Christians should never force Christianity on anyone). But I don't want to work through it myself. I want to surrender my life to Christ and allow him to have His will in my life. I want to surrender my problems and situations to Him and allow Him to work them out. Yes, he gave me the ability to work it out myself, but he also gave a way out. He gave me the choice to say, "Father, you take this one. You can do it better anyhow." It's my choice to surrender. I don't see it as that I need to cut the umbilicle cord. I see it that as humans we have a natural desire to do things our way and take our own control over things. It takes more strength to surrender and trust God.
  18. craigmc

    craigmc Member

    im sorry maybe i was a bit harsh with what i said, when i said pissed off i didnt mean i sit there getting all angry by it, it just baffles me i dont understand why people follow religions so closely and imerse their wholes into it

    i do actually understand they have reasons behind it im not that blinkered i have heard a lot of the reasons and fair play to them i dont begrudge anyone their belief, i just dont like it when other peoples hard work and commiment is taken away because people would rather believe their faith played a bigger part. your prayers dont hurt me and by all means you carry on praying but give credit were it is due aswell!

    regarding the "saved" it may be your terminology but surely you can see why i find it a bit offensive? its like you are saying people who choose not to follow god have something wrong with them, that something terrible is going to happen. christians are meant to be nice friendly kind people yet you use words like that, fair enough i can see why you use it but cant you see why i think its wrong to say it?

    by the way my comments arnt aimed at anyone in perticular just things i have come across in my life i really am sorry if ive offended anyone
  19. craigmc

    craigmc Member

    also you have said many christians cant express their faith without offending other people

    well there are parts or your religion that are offensive! you state you want freedom of speech, well give other people the freedom of speech to tell you what they find offensive

    at the moment in the uk new laws are beinging made to give equal rights to all people. one of the major sticking points is christian adoption agencies dont want to give children to gay couples.

    as long as the are veted like all other couples i dont see a problem with this but as it is against their religious beliefs they would rather close down and leave many kinds vunerable then follow something that is law! i know many christians dont agree with homosexuality but if it was so wrong wouldnt "god" have stopped it? christians say it is evil but it even happens in nature certain animals do it, it was around long before christianity. you say we dont give you the freedom of speech to express your religion but look back other history and you have done your fair share of opressing other people, you still do have your freedom of speech but now we have ours to say "no, maybe your wrong"

    sorry if it seems like im attacking you but alot of people who follow religion only see their side of things, why cant you open your eyes and see what is actually infront of you?
  20. geauxboy

    geauxboy Well-Known Member

    Ceit, that first sentence is an interesting observation. I've heard that before from some Europeans I know. It's sort of an oxymoron. This is only my opinion, but it seems that many faiths are so sure that their's is the right one, that they get their panties in a knot when someone says otherwise. I feel that if anyone gets offended over anything shows a weakness and insecurity in their beliefs (religious or not).

    There is a seperation of church and state, but while running for office, they make sure that they profess their faith and base many of their decisions on their faith. Our current "President" loves to throw his faith around and base laws on that faith. That really doesn't sound like a seperation to me. Even HIS war has some much religious rhetoric is almost disgusting. Actually, it's past disgusting. But, it's alright because I know that when he uses his faith as a reasoning, he's excluding me and my people from the wrath that is soon to be.

    The arguments of say, stem cell research, abortion and homosexuality are all based on the reasonings of their faith. Homosexuality is a sin. Sin IS NOT law. Stem cell research opposistion uses references from the Bible to state whether or not the cell is "life" yet. Abortion is another subject in which the opposition quotes the Bible. These subjects are being put into law and it's clearly based on one's faith. When you make laws based on the Bible or your faith, then the seperation between church and state are gone.

    The fact that it seems Americans are the ones that get most offeneded by open expression of faith is true. I'm sure the rest of the world has numerous religious backgrounds within small confines. America professes to have equality when it comes to expressing your views on your faith. Yet, It will be a cold day in hell when anyone other than a Christian or Catholic based person will be President. Little two faced there, maybe?

    I know a Islamist (or maybe Mulsim) recently became a Senator or Congressman (I can't follow politics. it makes me sick). During his public swearing in, they made him swear on the Bible. In private, he did it his way and was sworn in with the Quran. Hmmmm. Why did he have to do that in private? If America is such an equal faith country, why can't he openly confess his faith to Islam? And, who would be most offeneded and threatened?

    To answer your question on religion in public schools is that they are not technically allowed to teach any religion. It's been quite a number of years since I was in school and some states have different laws or rules. So some may counter this and state otherwise. These days, I am hearing more and more about the fight to teach creationism along with, or instead or, the Big Bang Theory. That is a blantant faith based action right there. Besides the fact that I think it's a bit rediculous, I also have to laugh at the whole thing.

    Let's see now. Creationism (not that I profess to be a know it all on the subject) is a Bible thing based on ONE book with hardly a shred of proof. The Big Bang Theory, however, is based on scientific proof. So, my point is this. How in the world can you teach something like it's fact when it's based on your faith, but yet the plain facts are discredited and oppressed? Schools base their schooling on FACTS, not faith. How do write a textbook on Creationism when there is barely a shred of proof of it? So now, this faith belief is turned into fact? What kind of pictures would be in this book? How bout timelines and other facts that will be totally void in the book because there are none?

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