Locative case question

Discussion in 'Grammar & Pronunciation' started by durk, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. durk

    durk Well-Known Member

    I don't understand why in : jsem na posteli, the ending is i and not e... I would have written 'jsem na postele' when following my book's guidelines.

    I thought the rule was with words ending in l, j , z took an 'e' ending.
  2. mbm

    mbm Well-Known Member

    Your book is probably oversimplifying things. The word postel is feminine and follows pretty much the same paradigm as words such as píseň and dlaň. The locative ("6th case") of postel is posteli.
  3. durk

    durk Well-Known Member

    Yes thank you, this is what my czech colleague tried to explain to me. I guess.

    Here is what my book said :

    l,s,z -> e
    š,č,ř,ž,ň,ť,ď,c,j -> ě
    (M,N) k,h,r,g,ch -> u
    (F) ha,ka,ga,cha,ra -> ze, ce, ze, še, ře
    b, d, v, m, n, p, t -> ě
  4. mbm

    mbm Well-Known Member

    If this is all the book says, then it isn't even beginning to scratch the surface. These are probably just meant to be rules of thumb, not hard and fast rules.

    Anyway, good luck with your Czech - na posteli or out of it ;-)
  5. durk

    durk Well-Known Member

    well, it is all they say about singular Locative for Masculine inanimate, Neutral and some feminine :)

    Yes, with that book I'll need luck. thanks.
  6. gementricxs

    gementricxs Well-Known Member

    What book is it?
  7. colineček

    colineček Member

    I am only into my forth month of learning Czech so don’t take what I say as absolute gospel, but this is my understanding of declension in the locative case:
    * Most hard stem mi nouns end –u, and a few end –e/ě.
    * f noun endings -ha softens to -ze, -ka softens to -ce, -ra softens to -ře, -ga softens to -ze, -ch softens to -še, and use the preposition v or ve
    * m noun endings –k, -ch, -r, -h, -g , and from borrowed words, decline to –u and use the preposition v or ve.
    * m + f noun endings –d, -t, -n and neu nouns ending -o decline to -ě and use the preposition v .
    * m noun endings -f, -l, -m, -p, -s, -v, -z and f nouns ending -a decline to –e and use the preposition v .
    * m noun endings -f, -l, -m, -p, -s, -v, -z, decline to –e and use the preposition v .
    * m + f noun endings -ž, -š, -č, -ř, -c, -j, -ď, -ť, -ň and f & neu nouns ending -e decline to –i and use the preposition v or ve.
    * NOTE: where nouns end in –eň , they are declined to –ne.
  8. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Declension of nouns(and adjectives) is really tricky.
    That is definitely one of my worst areas.

    I like the idea of animate for male living things in the accusative, it seems a fine, useful, distinction in the language.
    Ditě se bojí, když za stromem slyší zlého hrozivého psa.
    Ditě se nebojí, když za stromem slyší maličkou milou kočku.
  9. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Scrimshaw, if you want to say that the dog is behind tree, you have to place the location somewhere nearby the dog. Preferably "když slyší ... psa za stromem", that unquestionably means the dog is behind the tree. You placed it before the verb, that means the location is related to the subject dítě. Maybe it doesn't matter here, since the relation "being behind tree" is symmetric, but it could be problem somewhere else.
  10. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    ok :D think I got it.

    Dítě se balo, když slyšel(o?) za stromy hrozného zlého psa.
    Ale zasadně se děti nebali, když nečekovaně slyšeli milou maličkou kočku za domem.

    Why the change in position of adjectives
    Not because itś gramatically incorrect right? Just because that's how it is usually said.
    We would commonly hear nice little kittty
    rarely hear little nice kitty.
  11. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    The word zásadně expands the verb, right? So place it nearby the verb.

    BTW, you overuse this adjective. It has very strong meaning in Czech, something like "as a matter of principle" (sometimes even "as a matter of spitefulness" :wink:).

    Yep, it will be red otherwise. :wink:
    Yes, that's common order. In Czech, the attribute written in this way gradually expands the corresponding part of clause.

    Hrozný zlý pes means you firstly choose all bad/evil dogs from the class of all dogs and then you choose all horrible dogs from the class of all bad/evil dogs.

    Zlý hrozný pes means you firstly choose all horrible dogs from the class of all dogs and then you choose all bad/evil dogs from the class of all horrible dogs.

    Zlý, (<- in the speech there is a noticable pause in the place of comma) hrozný pes or zlý a hrozný pes means you choose at once all bad/evil and horrible dogs from the class of all dogs.

    Sorry, as for the order, I can't remember any rule right now.
  12. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    To je zajímavé a uzitečné.
    Děti se nikdy nebály, když vidí sousedčiny milou maličkou bílou kočku, zatím když slyšely druhé sousedčin zlého hrozného černého psa, pořád se rychle vrátí domů.
    zásadně=generally=ok, but in more serious formal manner
    možná obvykle je lepší výběr.

    firstly=an adverb(I suppose) that is rarely used
    I know the meaning you want to express is ''The very first thing''.

    But just first works fine.
    First I did this, then I did that.
    The first thing you need to do is wash the car.
    I bet I will finish first.
    First(extremely proper=firstly), I would like to thank all my gathered friends.......long speech.
    If I were you I would (first) look left and right before crossing the street.
  13. Karel_lerak

    Karel_lerak Well-Known Member

    Not in London, it would be dangerous there :!: 8) 8)

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