subjunctive

Discussion in 'Grammar & Pronunciation' started by chipmunk, Nov 3, 2004.

  1. chipmunk

    chipmunk Member

    hello everybody!
    I have a linguistic question - do we have a subjunctive in the Czech language?
    thanks chipmunk :wink:
     
  2. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    Yes there is a subjunctive in the Czech language. It is formed with the particle abych/abys/aby/abychom/abyste/aby + past tense.

    Ex: Chci, abys prisel domu. [I want you to come home.]

    Note, in some parts of Moravia, you can also hear "aby jsi" and "aby jsme."
     
  3. Halef

    Halef Well-Known Member

    I doubt there are any parts of Moravia pronouncing "jsi" or "jsme" :)
    "Aby jsi" or "aby jsme" is a frequent mistake - it even sounds more correct to some people, but is not.
     
  4. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    Actually, "abysem, abysme" or "abychme" is rather colloquial than regional and you can hear it everywhere in CR.
     
  5. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding of these other forms. I had heard them more in Moravia and had assumed this was regional and that they were considered as acceptable alternatives.
     
  6. Kikko

    Kikko Well-Known Member

    Guess who's back :)

    Cool, Im gonna book these ones.


    About subjunctive I've learned about two kind of constructions, Mods can correct me if Im wrong or just add more.

    The first kind is applied to impossible situations.
    In this case is used kdy + bych, bys, by, ... + past

    Some example...

    + If America still were a british colony - Kdyby Amerika ještĕ byla britskou kolonii
    + If I were 10 years younger... - Kdybych byl o deset roků mladší
    + If you were sorry you would have apologized - Kdybys litovala, omluvila by ses


    The second is used to express will/desire to. In this case it's used a + bych, bys, by, ... + past

    Indipendently of the tense of the principal, the subjunctive is expressed in the past.

    Some example...
    + I want you to leave - Chci, abys odešel
    + I will want you to leave - Budu chtít, abys to věděl
    + They wanted you to know it - Chtěli, abys to věděl
    + We would like you to know it - Chtěli bychom, abys to věděl
    + I told him not to do it - Řekl mu jsem, aby to neudělal

    p.s. I hope czech letters are visible. Now Im using a czech operating system so I can write/read them easily. I hope those using a not czech system can read them correctly too.
     
  7. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    Welcome back, Kikko :)

    should be - Budu chtít, abys odešel (odešla).

    besides, the expression "kéž" can be used here:
    Kéž bych měl peníze = I wish I had money.
    Kéž bych tak byla doma = I wish I were home.
     
  8. Dana

    Dana Well-Known Member

    It's great to see you back Kikko! :)

    Your post was correct and the Czech characters are visible to me on a non-Czech operating system.

    "Řekl mu jsem..." should be "Řekl jsem mu..."
    "aby to neudělal" is not incorrect but would sound better as "aby to nedělal"
     
  9. Kikko

    Kikko Well-Known Member


    yea sure
    Odcházet, Odejít, at 3:30 am my brain is turned off ;)
     
  10. Wicker808

    Wicker808 Well-Known Member

    I think it's appropriate to clarify and expand on the presented information about subjunctive mood.

    A clause in subjunctive mood in Czech takes one of two forms.

    1. A subjunctive clause of the first type can be identified by beginning with a form of the word aby (which conjugates as indicated above). The verb in such a clause must be in the past participular form, which is also used when constructing past tense. The past participle form is the form of the verb that ends with -l, -lo, -la, -li, -ly. Past tense itself may not be used in a subjunctive clause.

    2. A subjunctive clause of the second type begins with the word ať, which does not conjugate. The verb in such a clause must be in the normally conjugated indicative form. For imperfective verbs, this means the imperfective present, and for perfective verbs, perfective future.

    The two forms of subjunctive clauses are often interchangable, and sometimes not. In translation of phrases such as "Find it wherever it may be," the ať form is preferred ("Najdi to, ať je kdekoliv."). For expressing intent or purpose, it seems that the aby form is preferred ("Abys to našel, nemusíš moc hledát.") For commands or wishes, they can usually both be used ("Řekni mu, aby to našel." "Řekni mu, ať to najde.").

    Like all secondary clauses in Czech, subjunctive clauses are offset from the main clause by a comma. In all subjunctive clauses, the effective tense of the clause is relative to the tense of the main clause.

    It is also worth noting that the second person informal singular form of aby can be combined with reflexive pronouns to form "aby ses" or "aby sis."

    I would argue that kdyby, když by, and related forms are in fact conditional mood and not subjunctive, although their use corresponds to that of subjunctive in other languages.

    I hope that clears it up.
     

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