učit, naučit dative or accusative?

Discussion in 'Grammar & Pronunciation' started by Calvario, Dec 20, 2006.

  1. Zeisig

    Zeisig Well-Known Member

    Učíš se ruštinu or ruštině?

    Accusative or dative?

    It is more complex. We usually say (colloquially): Učíme se ruštinu (acc.).

    But we never say: Učíme se dobré chování (acc.). Učíme se kázeň a pořádek (acc.).


    Učíme se dobrému chování. DATIVE!
    Učíme se kázni a pořádku. DATIVE!
    Učíme se tanci a zpěvu. DATIVE!
    Nauč se slušnosti! DATIVE!

    Do you like complex and confusing rules? For example:

    učit se ruštinu - accusative
    učit se slušnosti - dative

    What is the formal (in terms of grammar) difference between ruština and slušnost?

    I think that the dative (učit se čemu) is at least more universal and always correct. Although it can sound bookish.
  2. Calvario

    Calvario Well-Known Member

    Wicker that is very interesting.

    By what virtue is a grammatical rule a rule. Is it the commonly accepted use of a word or is there more to it. Who is to say if a term changes that the rule does too. I would not debate that "It's me" is wrong, however there are many who do, apparently. I was checking on wikipedia "It's I/It'sme" and apparently there is a dispute of its grammatical correctness. I'm going to check into this more, kind of an interesting topic. I don't know that language rules are subjective to the changes that are made by us regardless of how long they are in use. I am curious to know if one were to use the colloquial accusative when the dative is the rule(if in fact it is) if a professor would mark it wrong on a test. I suppose it would depend on the professor.

    Anyways this has been a very interesting thread. Much more than I had anticipated.

    Merry Christmas,
  3. eso

    eso Well-Known Member

  4. Karel_lerak

    Karel_lerak Well-Known Member

    The languges (Czech being no exception) change with time.
    During my life I "survived" quite a lot of changes, and what was incorrect or colloquial few years ago is OK now.
    Nowadays the "correctness" of the (Czech) written text is not very high level (not only in newspapers, even in books) and the language is overfilled by english words (or Czech derivatives of them). The Language Institute is trying to follow the trends and perhaps to formulate new rules. This is of course very thankless activity :)

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