cz > en a text on Literary and Colloquial Czech

Discussion in 'Vocabulary & Translation Help' started by Ctyri koruny, Dec 4, 2009.

  1. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    This is a text from Krok za Krokem, I'm hoping you guys can help me with my understanding of it.
    No copyright infringement intended!
    I've written it as I understand it but put more literal translations in brackets.

    I'd be grateful for any help at all you can give me! :)

    Spisovná čeština je prestižní podoba českého jayzka, která se použivá na oficiálni ůrovní, tj. při oficiálních přílžitostech, v uředních dokumentech, ve školach a ve veřejnoprávních médlích.

    Standard written Czech (literary Czech) is the prestigious form (appearance) of the Czech language, which is used in official situations (on official levels) i.e. in official documents, in schools, and in veřejnoprávních médlích

    V mluvených projevech je spisovná čeština většinou vnímána nepřiroyená. V těchto situacích používame obecnou češtinu nebo dialekty viz níže

    In spoken forms ("manifestations") literary Czech is more vnímána nepřiroyená (I am guessing something like "out of place.") In these situations we use colloquial Czech or a dialect (see below) (There are details of the colloquial forms on the lower half of the page that i'm not including)

    Obecná čeština je nespisovná forma českého jazyka používaná v běžné ustní komunikaci, a to hlavně v čechách a na západní Moravě.

    Colloquial (common) Czech is the nonliterary form of the Czech language used in normal spoken communication, mainly in Bohemia and west Moravia.

    V ostatních částech Moravy se můžeme setkat s dialekty (nářečímí), která děíme na středomoravská, východomoravská a slezká.

    In other parts of Moravia we can meet with dialects which are divided between (i'm guessing divided on = between) central Moravia, east Moravia and Silesia.

    POZOR Používání obecné češtiny není vhodné v oficiálních situacích (např pracovaní pohovor, konference...) a při psaní ofciálních dokumentů (např životopis, motivační dopis, objednávka, stížnost...)

    CAREFUL: Use of colloquial Czech isn't appropriate in official situations. (For example: job interviews, conferences.) and filling in (writing in) official documents. (For example: CV, cover letter, order, complaint.)

    Proč máme "dvé češtiny"?
    Po bitvě na Bilé Hoře v roce 1620 zmizela čeština v vyšších typů škol a úřadů.

    Why do we have "Two Czechs"?
    After the battle of Bile Hore in 1620 Czech disappeared in all good (higher) schools and offices. (Offices? In 1620? Is this really what it means here?)

    Literární jazyk upadal, ale čeština se vyvíjela v mluvené podobě.

    The literary language declined, but Czech developed in spoken form.

    V době Národního obrození ( konec 18. stoleí a privní polovina 19. stoleti) přijali lingvisté jako standard jazyk Bible kralické ze 16 stoleti.

    In the time of the national revival (at the end of the 18th century and the beginning of the 19th) linguists adopted as standard the language of the King James's Bible (Kings bible) from the 16th century.

    Změny, které mezitím v mluveném jazyce v čechách nastaly, nebyly přijaty.

    Changes which had occurred (happened) in the meantime in Bohemia weren't included. (accepted)

    Tím vznikla dnešní situace, tedy koexiste spisovné a obecné češtiny/nářečí na většině uzemi.

    Tím vznikla today's situation, literary and colloquial Czech/dialects in most of the country.

    POZOR V současné době je tipické tyv. míšení kodu, to znamená používání spisovné i obecné češtiny, např. v rámci jedné věty nebo promluvy.

    ATTENTION: Nowadays there is something typically called "Code mixing" which refers to using literary as well as colloquial Czech. For example one sentence in a conversation.

    If you would like to purchase/ learn more about the book this is from click here:
  2. meluzina

    meluzina Well-Known Member

    veřejnoprávních médlích - should it maybe be médiích ? veřejnoprávní média = public media

    yes = out of place, literally "unnatural"

    yes that is what it really means -- offices as in "public administration authorities" -- Czech was no longer the official language

    Bitva na Bilé Hoře = Battle of White Mountain

    following is from here: ... -years-war

    On November 8, 1620, the decisive battle for the uprising took place at White Mountain (Bílá Hora) near Prague. It lasted two hours and the poorly paid and demoralized estates’ army lost the battle. Frederick of the Palatinate escaped from Prague shortly after receiving news of the defeat. Because of his short reign, he was given the derisory nickname of the Winter King. The Battle of White Mountain went down in Czech national history as the beginning of a “dark period” involving the decline of the Czech nation.

    and from here: ... c-history/

    8 November 1620: Czech revolt against Austria harshly put down. Defeat at the Battle of the White Mountain results in Bohemia and Moravia becoming provinces of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The Battle of the White Mountain resulted in the Thirty Years’ War that spread across Europe.
    21 June 1621: 27 Protestant leaders were executed on the Old Town Square and all religions except Catholic were banned. The Czech language and national consciousness were suppressed for the next 150 years.

    Things did not start improving until the rule of Maria Therese and her son (during the mid-eighteenth century), but the "official" language was still german...
    the following gives a brief synopsis: ... :1867.html
  3. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    In Czech, we capitalize only the first letter in the title.

    Spisovná čeština is the Standard Czech, both written and spoken one. The adjective “spisovná” doesn’t mean “written”, but something like “as-if-for-writing”.

    veřejnoprávní = governed by public law

    mluvený projev = speach
    v mluvených projevech = in speach, when speaking (resp when spoken)

    When spoken, Standard Czech is often perceived as unnatural. (This applies for informal situations!)

    ¹Common Czech is one particular colloquial form of Czech.

    která dělíme na = which we divide in ~ which are classified as

    First person plural is common way of expressing in professional texts, e.g.:

    známe dva druhy = we know two kinds (species) of ~ there are two known kinds (species) of

    (Offices? In 1620? Is this really what it means here?)
    Yes, why not? It refers to the state offices.

    ¹ In Czech, a point following a number denotes an ordinal number (1. = 1st, 2. = 2nd, 16. = 16th).

    ² The language of the Bible of Kralice, aka kraličtina, was informal standard of Czech centuries before the National Revival. The attempts to use it as the standard of Czech failed in the very early phase of the revival, it was out-dated. The Standard Czech which was successfully adopted later on is partly influenced by Kraličtina, but it’s significantly different.

    ³ Interesting, you are the second person in this forum to confuse Bible of Kralice with King James's Bible. Bible of Kralice means the bible printed in the town of Kralice, it’s a Czech Protestant Bible translated directly from the original languages.

    ¹ v rámci = in the frame of ~ within (the bounds of)

    The Czech Estates revolted on behalf of the King against the King’s regents. But the King twisted the whole thing as a revolt against himself, because he needed a cusus belli against the Protestants in Germany. It was never a revolt against Austria, that was a completely different country.

    Nonsense, the Kingdom of Bohemia was and independent state in personal union with Austria both before and after the war. The battle resulted into recatolization and replaced the parliamentary monarchy with the absolute monarchy.
    Not the battle, but the revolt.

    Except that some of the executed Protestants were actually Catholics.
    Before the battle, Czech was the only official language – after the battle, German became the second official language.
    To attribute the improvement to Maria Theresa is quirky, because it was she who declared (for the first time!) German the only official language. The improvement started with the Industrial Revolution which started in the same time.
  4. meluzina

    meluzina Well-Known Member

    sorry - confused -

    i admit i did not pick a very good source to quote

    wasn't it technically a revolt against the holy roman emperor and his actions, specifically that he retracted some promises made by a previous ruler which would ensure religions freedom?

    didn't they more or less retain independence sort of "on paper only"? I thought the Bohemian nobles lost most of their land and ended up in exile?

    again confused - the link that ctyri koruny quoted says, "After the battle of Bílá hora (White Mountain) in 1620 Czech disappeared from higher levels of schools and offices." implying that although Czech was not banned, it was not really taught or used in official life( i.e., dealing with the government offices)?

    As ar as Maria Therese is concerned, I think she does deserve a bit of credit - as didn't she do away with serfdom and institute other reforms that actually made it possible for all classes of czechs to receive an education (albeit in German)? Without this, I'm not sure that the industrial revolution could have had as great an impact...
  5. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    The nobles indeed revolted against a breach of law on religious freedom, but they never intended to revolt against the King. They thought that the King is on their side, that they protected the King’s will against wicked regents.
    But the King was willing to stake his position in Bohemia to shorten the odds in the Empire, so it turned the other way.

    Yes, the protestant nobles lost their estates (or converted to Catholicism), but it doesn’t mean that the state ceased to exist. It was a change of ruling elites, of the system within the state, but the state itself was preserved.
    After all, no sane ruler would ever mind the possibility to make the Elector Kingdom of Bohemia a province of the Non-Elector Archduchy of Austria, i.e. to undermine his own position within the Empire.

    After the battle Czech started to decline but it took about a century for Czech to really disappear. The starting position right after the battle was actually a falling boom.

    That’s matter of perspective, MT’s objectives were exactly the opposite. She wanted centralized and homogenized state with strong economy and German as the only official language. She introduced the obligatory school attendance to raise the economy, not to undermine the position of German.

    The serfdom was abolished under Joseph II. and it was more a resignation on enforcing it than an actual reform.
  6. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    Thanks guys! I understand the text a lot better now.. and the history a little worse ;)

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