(CZ>EN) Extracts from book review

Discussion in 'Vocabulary & Translation Help' started by rsalc1, May 22, 2009.

  1. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Když účel světí prostředky...excellent phrase
    Je to trochu Machavelské.
    Někdy je třeba udělat věci, které bychom pravidelně neudělali.
    V stále nepolapitelně dokonalém světě, účel by nidky nesvětil zlými postředky.

    Hope that made sense.
     
  2. rsalc1

    rsalc1 Well-Known Member

    I will try to translate... probably not very well.
    It is a little Machiavelic.
    Sometimes it is necessary to do things, which we would not do regularly.
    In a constantly ____ perfect world, the end never would sanctify/justify bad things.
     
  3. bibax

    bibax Well-Known Member

    And I will try to translate Scrimshaw's ideas into regular Czech. :)

    Je to trochu machiavelské.

    Někdy je třeba udělat věci, které bychom normálně neudělali.
    (Někdy je třeba udělat věci, které bychom běžně dělat neměli.)

    V dosud nedosaženém dokonalém světě by účel nikdy neměl světit zlé (špatné) prostředky.
    (V nedosažitelně dokonalém světě účel nikdy nesvětí nezákonné prostředky.)

    In the unaccomplishable perfect world the good end never justifies the bad means.
     
  4. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    I would say machiavelistické.
     
  5. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Děkuji všem za všechny zpětné dešifrování. :D

    I like your version there 'the unaccomplishable(unattainable would be even better) perfect world.

    This was my intent.

    In the ever elusive perfect world, the end would never justify evil means.

    I see I used instrumental. Wrong construct.
    kruté, nezákonné, špatné, zlé prostředky.
     
  6. bibax

    bibax Well-Known Member

    Now I'll try to use the English conjunctive. :?

    I wish the evil means should never be justified by good intentions.
    Přeji si, aby špatné prostředky nikdy nebyly ospravedlněny dobrými úmysly.

    The evil means should not be justified by good intentions.
    Špatné prostředky nebuďtež ospravedlněny dobrými úmysly. 8)
     
  7. rsalc1

    rsalc1 Well-Known Member

    Okay. I am almost finished with the book review... 3 more posts to finish! ;)

    Na psím podobenství je vysvětleno poddanství či učební metoda Jana Amose Komenského. Snad jen ta touha ocitnout se na královském znaku Psovi nějak nevyšla.

    In the dog's story is explained the allegiance or the teaching of Komensky's method. Maybe only that wish to find oneself on the royal sign for Dog(?) somehow came out.

    Pro ty, jimž humorné účtování s minulostí přijde až příliš lehké, za každou, zhruba šestistránkovou, kapitolou(which case?) následuje tabulka Co Pes asi nevěděl, suchý přehled klíčových historických událostí. Tedy s výjimkou pověstí, k nimž se nevztahují žádná data. Je škoda, že autorčina fantazie a humor nejvíce pracují právě u legend(which gender and case?) a tradovaných příběhů a s přibližováním se současnosti působí líčení někdy trochu popisně.

    For those, for whom a funny account with the past comes too easy, for each, approimately a 60-page chapter follows the table "What the dog probably didn't know", a dry view of key historic events. Therefore with exception to the fables, to which they(subject??) don't apply any data. It's a pity that the author's fantasy and humor just work more on legend and handed-down stories and with approaching _________________________________.
     
  8. rsalc1

    rsalc1 Well-Known Member

  9. bibax

    bibax Well-Known Member

    Na psím podobenství je vysvětleno poddanství či učební metoda Jana Amose Komenského. Snad jen ta touha ocitnout se na královském znaku Psovi nějak nevyšla.

    On the dog's simile, the allegiance (serfdom?) or the Komensky's teaching method are explained by means of the dog's simile (similitude, metaphor). Maybe (possibly, it may) only the Dog's wish (desire) to find himself on the royal coat-of-arms somehow failed.
     
  10. bibax

    bibax Well-Known Member

    Pro ty, jimž humorné účtování s minulostí přijde až příliš lehké, za každou, zhruba šestistránkovou, kapitolou (which case? za kapitolou, instr.) následuje tabulka Co Pes asi nevěděl, suchý přehled klíčových historických událostí. Tedy s výjimkou pověstí, k nimž se nevztahují žádná data. Je škoda, že autorčina fantazie a humor nejvíce pracují právě u legend(which gender and case? fem. gen. plur.) a tradovaných příběhů a s přibližováním se současnosti působí líčení někdy trochu popisně.

    To those, to whom a funny account (reckoning) with the past seems to be too easy (light, non-serious), the end of each - approximately 6-page long - chapter is followed by the table "What the dog probably didn't know", a dry (concise, brief) abstract (resumé, summary) of key (crucial) historic events. (Tedy ovšem)Of course with the exception of the fables, which any data don't apply to. It's a pity that the author's fantasy and humor just work more (most?) in the case of the legend and handed-down (orally transmitted) stories and with approaching present the description (depiction) sometimes looks (functions) a little descriptively.

    legenda - in Czech fem. like žena, in Latin neutre plural like castra, templa, cetera, ...

    Uff. Jeden neumí česky, druhý neumí anglicky.
     
  11. rsalc1

    rsalc1 Well-Known Member

    bibax: díky za vysvětlení.
    Jeden umí česky špatně (rsalc1), druhý umí anglicky dost dobře (bibax)
    8)
     
  12. rsalc1

    rsalc1 Well-Known Member

    Here I try to "polish up" bibax's English translation.

    For those who find a funny account of the past too light-hearted (non-serious), the end of each chapter - approximately 6-pages long - is followed by the table "What the dog probably didn't know", a concise summary of key historic event - with the exception, of course, of fables for which no data applies. It's a pity that the author's fantasy and humor work best in the case of legends and orally transmitted stories but looks a bit deceptive when it comes to present day descriptions.
     
  13. rsalc1

    rsalc1 Well-Known Member

    This is the next to last section of the book review.
    It has been a tough translation exercise. Thanks to all who have helped me with corrections and explanations!

    Proti případným výtkám se však Drijverová pojistila závěrečným upozorněním, že Psovi připadají některé události zajímavější než jiné, něco přehlédne a leccos hodnotí jinak než člověk. „Máte-li tedy ke knize výhrady nebo připomínky, adresujte je prosím PSOVI. Kterémukoli. Psi se dívají na české dějiny víceméně stejně. A neumějí číst, takže nad případnými výpady či kritikami v tisku nebudou plakat. Ani výt.“

    Drijverova insures against possible/eventual criticism, however, with the concluding warning, that some events seemed more interesting than others to the Dog; he omitted something and rated this and that differently than men (would have rated). Therfore, if you have exceptions or reminders to the book, adress them please to the DOG. ________. Dogs looked at Czech history more or less the same. And they didn't know how to read, so that on eventual _____ or criticism in print(?) will not cry (I don't get this whole sentence). Not even howl.
     
  14. bibax

    bibax Well-Known Member

    Therfore, if you have objections or reminders to the book, adress them please to the DOG. To whatever dog. The? dogs looked at Czech history more or less the same. And they didn't know how to read, so that they (dogs) will not cry over eventual invectives (diatribe) or criticism in printed media. Neither they will howl.
     
  15. rsalc1

    rsalc1 Well-Known Member

    bibax: Thanks for the correction and explanation.
    This is funny: address your comments to the dog. Since dogs don't know how to read, they won't cry or howl (when they receive criticism) :)

    * You don't need to use the definite article (the) here. When talking about soemthing in general, English doesn't use the definite article. Example: Dogs don't know how to read. Cats love the outdoors.
     
  16. rsalc1

    rsalc1 Well-Known Member

    And here is the last secton of the book review. I am glad that this translation exercise is over! It was tough. :roll:

    Psí pohledy
    Pověst o Přemyslu Oráčovi - Několikrát po sobě zamířil kůň k vysoce nevhodnému objektu - jednou to byl kulhavý vandrák, poté mladíček, kterému sotva začaly(is vousy the subject?) vyrážet vousy, a potřetí jakýsi cizinec s očima omalovanýma modrou barvou. Každý z nich se už mohl stát vládcem Čechů... nebýt toho, že Pes pokaždé zaštěkl a kousl koně do nohy, aby ještě popoběhl.


    The dogs' viewpoint
    The fable of Přemysl Oráč - A few times after himself he directed/pointed a horse to a highly inconvenient object - once it was a limping rogue, afterwards a youth(?) who hardly began to grow a beard, and the third time some sort of foreigner with eyes painted blue. Each of these already was able to become ruler of Czech... except that each time the Dog yelped and bit the horse on the leg, _______________.
    (I don't get it: did these people become rulers of Czech or did the dog prevented them?)

    Pověst o Šemíkovi - Pes odhalil, jak to ve skutečnosti bylo. Ona se tam na druhém břehu Vltavy právě pásla taková pěkná černá klisna...
    O bitvě u Lipan - V bitvě u Lipan došlo k ošklivé situaci: Češi bojovali proti Čechům. Tak to ne, u toho nebudu! rozhodl Pes. Vždyť je to bratrovražedný boj! Vzal nohy na ramena a utíkal do Prahy.


    The fable of Šemík(?) - The Dog revealed, how it really was. She(who is she?) on the other shore of the Vltava ______ such a nice black mare....
    About the battle at Lipan - In the battle at Lipan something nasty happened: Czech battled Czechs. Not so, _____________ decided the Dog. After all that is fratricidal war! He took legs on shoulders(?) and ran away to Prague.

    Vláda Marie Terezie - Nejvíc Psa zarazilo, že většina pánů nemluví česky - jako by to všichni zapomněli! Všichni jen po německu, i na něj mluvili tou tvrdě znějící řečí. Pes se ovšem tvářil, že nechápe, třebaže si leccos domyslel. Na českého psa mluvte česky! vymyslel si heslo.
    Vznik Československa - Lidé jásali, Pes vyskakoval všema čtyřma do vzduchu. A když padl na zem štít s obrázkem rakouské orlice, zvedl nad ním nožičku.


    The reign of Marie Terezie - It bewildered Dog the most, that for the most noblemen(?) don't speak Czech - as if all forgot it(?). All speak only German, and _______ they spoke this starkly sonorous _____. The Dog of course pretended that he doesn't understand, although he surmised this or that. Speak Czech to a Czech dog! he came up with this motto.
    The inception of Czechoslovakia - People rejoiced, the Dog jumped on all four (legs) into the air. And when he fell to the ground a sield with pictures of Austrian __________, ____________________
     
  17. meluzina

    meluzina Well-Known Member


    Několikrát po sobě - Several times, one after another, the horse (horse is the subject), started heading towards a highly inappropriate subject. Once it was a limping hobo, afterwards a youth whose beard had barely started to grow, and the third time some sort of foreigner with blue painted around his eyes. Each of these could have easily become the ruler of the Czechs... if it weren't for the fact that each time the Dog yelped and bit the horse on the leg in order to force it (the horse) to keep on moving.
     
  18. meluzina

    meluzina Well-Known Member

    Pověst o Šemíkovi - Pes odhalil, jak to ve skutečnosti bylo. Ona se tam na druhém břehu Vltavy právě pásla taková pěkná černá klisna...
    O bitvě u Lipan - V bitvě u Lipan došlo k ošklivé situaci: Češi bojovali proti Čechům. Tak to ne, u toho nebudu! rozhodl Pes. Vždyť je to bratrovražedný boj! Vzal nohy na ramena a utíkal do Prahy.

    The fable of Šemík (yes) - The Dog revealed, how it really was. It just so happened that a nice black mare was grazing on the other shore of the vltava...

    Ona se tam ... prave = just at that time she ( the black mare)

    About the battle at Lipan - In the battle at Lipan something nasty happened: Czechs battled Czechs. "Now this won't do at all - I won't be a party to this", decided the Dog. After all that is fratricidal war! He packed up (?) and ran away to Prague.

    Vzal nohy na ramena - literally yes, he took his legs on his shoulders - but it's an expression used when someone runs away from or leaves somthing (some place) - can't think of an english equivalent expression - but i think there is one that is more expressive than "packed up"?
     
  19. meluzina

    meluzina Well-Known Member

    Vláda Marie Terezie - Nejvíc Psa zarazilo, že většina pánů nemluví česky - jako by to všichni zapomněli! Všichni jen po německu, i na něj mluvili tou tvrdě znějící řečí. Pes se ovšem tvářil, že nechápe, třebaže si leccos domyslel. Na českého psa mluvte česky! vymyslel si heslo.
    Vznik Československa - Lidé jásali, Pes vyskakoval všema čtyřma do vzduchu. A když padl na zem štít s obrázkem rakouské orlice, zvedl nad ním nožičku.

    The reign of Marie Terezie - It bewildered Dog the most, that most of the noblemen (ruling class?) don't speak Czech - as if they had all forgotten it (it as in the language)! All speak only German, and they even spoke at him (the Dog) in this harsh-sounding language. The Dog of course pretended that he doesn't understand, although he surmised this or that. Speak Czech to a Czech dog! he came up with this motto.
    The inception of Czechoslovakia - People rejoiced, the Dog jumped on all four (legs) into the air. And when a shield with a picture of the Austrian eagle (the AUstrian national emblem) fell to the ground, he (the Dog) lifted his leg over it.
     
  20. rsalc1

    rsalc1 Well-Known Member

    meluzina: great explanations.
    Thank you very much! Děkuji pěkně za vysvětlení!
     

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