czech eu presidency

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous (Czech-Related)' started by pedro1974, Dec 29, 2008.

  1. pedro1974

    pedro1974 Well-Known Member

    The President of the European Parliament has told Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek in Prague that the success of the Czech Republic’s EU presidency will depend on its prompt ratification of the Lisbon Treaty.
    The slogan it uses translates into English as: ‘We will make it sweet for Europe.’ In the Czech vernacular, the original idiom means to give someone a hard time. ... s-this-on/

    what do you think about?
    are you pro or anti ue :?:
  2. eso

    eso Well-Known Member

    I'm definitely pro EU. Which doesn't mean I am automatically for Lisbon treaty.
  3. AxeZ

    AxeZ Active Member

    Pro EU of course.
    That's why I don't understand presidents Klaus refusal to wave a EU flag on the Prague castle?
    If none of the other Eu states haven't lost any of its soverenity by displaying EU next to national flag....why czech president thinks he is smarter than others?
    National states in europe are slowly becoming obsolete anyway.
  4. eso

    eso Well-Known Member

    I agree with obsolation of national state, although it seems that for example Brttish, French or German politicians still promote it, but I'm curious - question for UK forum members - is EU flag on Buckingham Palace?

    I personaly have no problem with EU flag on Prague castle, but on other hand, I don't think it's very important if it's there or not. It's not real issue, it's intentionally politicized and there are much more important things.

    And Czechs are very sensitive to forcing to hanging up flags - from Soviet times.
  5. AxeZ

    AxeZ Active Member

    I don't think czechs are forced to use EU flag. They adopted that flag with their free will when joining European Union.

    Anyway, I really hope EU will some day become modern, strong democratic superstate which will have leading role in world.
  6. eso

    eso Well-Known Member

    EU flags are on many Czech government buildings.

    Right now the flag isn't on Prague castle. Again, I don't see it as the biggest EU problem right now.

    Czech president isn't so important figure in Czech governmental system. His role is more ceremonial. Leader of the government is prime minister.
  7. pedro1974

    pedro1974 Well-Known Member

    I agree with and i like the idea of eu, for common people useful (like a unique coin, the €, or an open easy way to travel).
    I dont want eu become a strong big country for politicians interest to rule the world.

    unfortunately thats the obiettive. a third pole, with u$a and ru$$ia (in next future china and india) that remind me the story of the book 1984, orwell.

    hope to be in a mistake and peace will rule the intere globe, soon, but i guess israel doesnt want it
  8. Alexx

    Alexx Well-Known Member

    I was there (Buckingham P.) in September and cannot say I saw any. For six weeks I spent in London, I cannot really say I remember seeing single one at all.

    From my point of view UK is, I do not know how to say it politically correctly, the least EU-into country in the EU. Not € adopted, not a part of Schengen area.

    So, I am pro EU, pro € (asap) pro EU-Lisbon-constitution (whatever you want to name it), pro radar, and antiKlaus :)
  9. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    I have been watching these comments.
    Seeing the 'obsolation of national state' and 'European super state' comments, I have a question.
    I would like to know the mind set, the intention, the vision of the future, of those who are creating this super state.
    Do you feel each country would be considered like a state, as in the states of the united states?
    The Parliament in Brussels (and France) would be like the federal government.(Just to compare, like the federal government, in Washington, D.C.?)
    Do you have in mind that Europe will one day be a country?
  10. AxeZ

    AxeZ Active Member

    Do you have any objections about one Europe becoming one state?
  11. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    No, I have no objections. Who am I to object anyway? :D
    It's just a new thought to me. One I haven't really considered.
    It's a real break from the past. So looks like the world map will look quite different than the way it did when I was growing up.
  12. Polednikova

    Polednikova Well-Known Member

    The notion of revolution plays no part in the political culture of the UK, but I reckon that you've just hit on the one thing that could change that!
  13. eso

    eso Well-Known Member

    Yes, I believe that one day Europe will become one state, similar to USA, with some local laws, but with higher frame of "federal" laws.

    Actually it's already happening - there is European Court of Human
    Rights in Strasburg, which is superior to national courts, there is European parliament elected by people of all member countries, there is common currency euro, which existence is impossible without common economy policy, no border crossings etc...

    What I don't like about Lisbon threaty is its size - it has about 300 pages! - and in that pages are hidden many, many things, which some of them I don't like.

    If Lisbon treaty was simple like that:
    I would probably vote for it.

    Original meaning for EU (or its predecessors) was to stop wars between European countries and it worked. Now we have to step up and become player on international level.
  14. AxeZ

    AxeZ Active Member

    Lisbon ( or any other it might follow ) treaty must be adjusted for everyone to understand and see its benefits.
    I am little dissapointed by Irelands refusal but that's life. Ireland is probably country which benefited most by joining EU and see no reason to halt current integration. Unfortunatly it si not only Irish problem but the problem of everyone else in Europe.
    IN time I think people will comprehend benefits of further integration and we will see some todays unimaginable things like UK joining schengen, adopting Euro...etc. IT is just matter of time.
    I think eso has pointed out nicely what we already have and how it goes.
    Things are moving transparently which is nice.
  15. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Fine, I will make it sweet for this thread!

    The flag issue

    First, possibility to do something doesn’t mean you have to do it.

    Second, EU flag over the residence of head of state is not common practice within European Union. The critic aimed strictly at the President of the Czech Republic is thus highly hypocritical.

    Third, there exists no official flag of the European Union.

    Fourth, President of the Czech Republic is not authorized to hoist the flag of an international organization under the law of the Czech Republic, except of on the occasion of the offical visit of the head of the organization. The flag of the organization could be hoisted only along with the Czech flag. The Czech flag must be placed on the front side of the building on the place of higher honor and must be at least of the size of the other flag.

    Fifth, President of the Republic and the Office of the President are bound by law to hoist the Standard of the President over the residence of President (= Prague Castle) whenever and only whenever the President is present in the country. No other flag (including the Czech flag!) is alloved to be hoisted over the residence of the President of the Republic.

    Sixth, your remark on behalf of Klaus’ smartness is just a venomous ad hominem attack of yours.

    We joined the European Union without adopting any flag of the Union.

    I consider acceptable to hoist a flag of the EU on the institutions which execute the power delagated on them from the EU. That means on the Office of Foreign Afairs (+ embassies), on the Customs Office an so on. President of the Republic is an institution unrelated to the European Union, so I see no reason to hoist the flag over his office.

    But I agree that all this is just a pseudo-problem whose purpose is to divert the public attention from more important issues (like the Lisbon Treaty).

    Not only from the Soviet times, and not only to the forcing to hang out the flags, but to the forcing in general.

    The foreigners who ask us to hoist a flag over the Prague Castle are highly insensitive. That is not only the residence of the President, it is also the centre of Czech statehood continuously for more than one thousand years. In comparison with this history, the European Union is just a momentary attempt with unclear future.

    The EU Presidency

    In this respect, I agree with Klaus that the presidency is rather technicality. It could be used to slightly emphasize the position of the country in presidency, but it is not a mayor factor driving the union. The successfulness of the presidency depends on two factors - on the readiness of the country in presidency and on the willingness of all other member states to respect the presidency. I see no substantial problems with the Czech Republic’s readiness, unfortunately I see more than a mere whiff of disrespect from some of the representatives of other member states.

    The President of the European Parliament’s conditioning of the Czech presidency with the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty is nice example of it. That is absolutely unacceptable, he has no authority to interfere into Czech decision-making, on the contrary, he must accept the decision of the Czech Republic (and any other member state) whatever it is.

    The very same President of the European Parliament recently ordered to the Czech Republic as a priority of its presidency to make the UK to give up their working time opt-out. What the hell he thinks? He is not in position to dictate to the member states, to his source of power. The most the Czech Republic could make for him in this matter is to deliver his well-mannered propasal to the Her Majesty's Government and ask the President of the European Parliament to wait patiently and with all respect for the British response.

    The Euro Currency

    I consider highly irresponsible to adopt Euro before the Czech economy’s approach to the saturated economies. The Czech economy is still in transition and its needs are different.

    My opinion on the later adoption is less strict, but still I consider it irresponsible. Surely, it is not suicidal, but we needn’t to enter a zone which follows the Franco-German needs and ignores the needs of other members. We can do better with independent monetary policy.

    In addition, the Euro is a political, not economical, project. It is based on the naïve idea that a single currency grants peace and unity. We needn’t to follow these unbased dreams.

    The European State

    I don’t share the general sentiment here, that Europe is predestined to become a single state. As far, there was no successful attempt, and the history of the attempts is very long (at least since Charlemagne).
    As I see it, there is no chance for any artificial single state unless you want to use violence or to act behind the backs of the peoples of Europe. The single state needs a single people, and the only way to create it in democratic conditions is to let the peoples of Europe to unite themselves spontaneously. Any artificial haste is contraproductive, any attempt to mastermind the process as well.
    Surely, the differencies in Europe are about to be belittled, but this is not guarantee of unification. The real process of unification needn’t respect the geographical criteria. (Right now, I feel myself culturally and politically closer to the USA or Australia than to the Spain, and I don’t anticipate change in this respect.)

    The European Union

    I like a lot of things in the European Union, the freedom of movement of people, goods, services and capital, first of all. Unfortunatelly, the European Union as a whole is somehow screwed. It is known for flagrant disrespect to its own rules. The discrepancy between the EU representatives and the peoples is steadily growing and the relation of the member states is far to be ideal. The citizens of member states still prefer any small benefit over rights of other member state’s citizens; under such circumstances it is impossible to share the rights in one common area. And there is minimal prospect of positive change.

    The Lisbon Treaty

    In my opinion, the Lisbon Treaty is about to petrify all the problems of the Union. The basic problem of the Union is the inability to make a step back. This results inevitably into degeneration.
    The EU representatives are never willing to make the step back, they are accustomed to not to consult the people (resp to consult them in a screwed way - in France and Netherlands as long as the people agree; in Ireland until the people agree). In addition, the EU representatives are recruited mostly from the failed politicians from individual member states. This resulted into a EU revolt of the incompetent who are eager to demonstrate their competence on the EU level by attacking the successful and legitimate politician on the national level. We have to stop this, and the rejection of the Lisbon Treaty is possibly our last chance.

    I hope you understand the Lisbon Treaty was created with the intention to hide the costs of the European Constitution rejected in referenda.

    Well, what a long litany of mine, but I have warned you in the very beginning of my post by adopting the motto of the Czech EU presidency, haven’t I?

    That is just a fairy tale told to the childern to make them fall asleep. :wink:

    You needn't to retreat so quickly, when discussing the EU, Florida is no less legitimate than Novi Sad. :D

    Does it mean that the Cromwellian era is squeezed out of the British minds or that it is generally disregarded?

    Maybe your are not proud of the English revolutionary tradition, but I say you I would a thousand times prefer your Lord Protector over the Protector we experienced here in Prague. :wink:

    Call me warmonger, but I do support Israel here.
  16. dzurisova

    dzurisova Well-Known Member

    Israel wants peace, just not at the price demanded by their neighbors.
  17. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Wer commented...

    Scrimshaw wrote:
    No, I have no objections. Who am I to object anyway?

    You needn't to retreat so quickly, when discussing the EU, Florida is no less legitimate than Novi Sad.
    To je dobrý, Were. Máš asi pravdu. Seskočil jsem s koně a utekl jsem k zád'u dřív než někdo postřil první střelbu. :D

    Actually I do have an opinion. Forming a country of Europe to me would be an insurmountable problem. It would seem to ignore, or over ride legitimate regional, national, cultural and historical identities and differences.
    I can see a Federation as a possibility, a common body promoting common interests and ties. But, to me, forming states out of the countries would be giving up way too much autonomy.
    Largeness is not always best.
    But my vote does not count in the EU.
  18. eso

    eso Well-Known Member

    I'm sure there were similar arguments, when USA was formed.
  19. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Yes, there were. And despite of better initial conditions it resulted into a civil war!
  20. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Good point...I was thinking about that as I was writing that last post, but I see some very big differences in the two examples.
    In the american example, the cultural and regional differences never had time to develop. As populations in the new territories grew they would appeal to the U.S. government to become states. There were no language barriers.
    The peoples of the areas were not very different and welcomed the opportunity to join a Union with sound federal laws.
    But there were also movements in some areas to not become states, but the majority would vote for statehood.
    The thirteen original colonies, those were the ones which really struggled with the idea of forming a union. Whether to give up their autonomy to the authority of a common federal government.
    But the constitution was written to limit authority of federal government and ensure autonomy on many matters to the individual states.

    The one time when regional and cultural differences did develop to a severe degree was the when the southern states decided to secede, because they felt the differences had become to great and that the federal government no longer worked for them, and the country fell into a four year civil war.

    So, I would say there are similarities and differences between the two examples. It will be interesting to see what happens.
    The final version of your union will be unique and specific to the reality in Europe.

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