Most Czechs want parliament to ratify Lisbon Treaty

Discussion in 'Culture' started by Yvan, Jan 30, 2009.

  1. Yvan

    Yvan Well-Known Member

  2. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    I am undecided now.. I voted yes to it, I feel it is a perfectly reasonable piece of legislation... and I feel the rest of Ireland was wrong to vote no.. but I do not like how our vote is being steamrolled, it seems very undemocratic.. it would be another thing if every other European nation had agreed to it, I would accept we were in the minority, but other nations were not given a vote and the only one that was voted no. Very undemocratic indeed exclamation mark

    In fact they bent over backwards to make sure the other nations would not have to vote on it.. it was originally going to be left to Ireland AND Poland, because of something in our constitutions, but they changed something in it to get around the Polish vote... but there was no getting around the Irish constitution without a referendum... it being an awkward piece of outdated catholic doctrine for the most part.

    If you do not understand what it is about this website set up by the independent referendum commission in Ireland should explain it
  3. kibicz

    kibicz Well-Known Member

    Have you read it?
  4. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Can anybody figure out how that magician did that trick in the link at the bottom of that Lisbon treaty page?
  5. Polednikova

    Polednikova Well-Known Member

    What trick's that, Scrimshaw?
  6. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Polednikova..if you click on that link that čtyři koruny sent, some guy will start talking(very nice technology there by the way...haven't seen that before) and at bottom of text are two links, one is to a video clip with magician.

    By the way, I found that 401 czech verbs book. Great resource.

    As for the Lisbon treaty, I have no idea.
  7. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    Of course? Who would vote on something they haven't read!?
  8. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    No clue.. Something of a tenuous link "if you don't vote you're half a person"
  9. kibicz

    kibicz Well-Known Member

    e.g.: 90% of czech government..
  10. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Ha, Kibicz, that's similar to what we're saying about this current multi billion dollar stimulus package currently before congress.
  11. Polednikova

    Polednikova Well-Known Member

    Thanks. I'll have a look.

    Excellent! You'll have many happy hours browsing through it, I'm sure. Ignore most of the stuff at the beginning, which I don't think is very well written and as for the phonetic pronunciation... :roll:
  12. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    or 100 % of Hungarian parliament (given they voted on the Hungarian version of the treaty before the version existed).

    And Čtyři koruny, have you read it completely?

    As far I was able to get through about 20 % of the treaty and it is enough for me to say a resolute no to the treaty. I distrust anybody who says he read it completely. That’s a full-time job.
  13. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    I definably skimmed and scanned the whole thing but as for perusal.. just bits and pieces
  14. BlackBox

    BlackBox Active Member

    Brian Cowen? :wink:
  15. Zik

    Zik Well-Known Member

    I supported the EU before, but now, I feel some doubts. Especially when I see mr. Nicolas Sarkozy, who say Central and Eeastern Europe is a danger for the EU. If Frenchmen don't want us and we don't want them, why the hell are we in the EU? What do we share with France, who leads the EU in fact? We share many things with Germany and the United Kingdom, but with France?

    The greatest advantage of the EU is: no borders. But we could have this advantage without being in the EU - for example Switzerland is in the Schengen Zone, but not in the EU. But of course, it also has disadvantages - now we are supporting it, because there are developed states of Western and Central Europe. But what if Albania or Turkey will join?

    Frenchmen think they are supporting us and they think our great economical growth (before the crisis) was their merit. We know the EU destroyed our sugar industry and we pay for rich French farmers.

    I heard if Irishmen will accept the Lisbon Treaty and we will not, we can be kicked off from the EU. Maybe, it wouldn't be so bad. Members of the Schengen Zone (=free travelling) but not of the EU (=we will lead our country, not Brussels).

    I begin to understand British people, who say: „Britain should leave the EU!“. They have national pride! There are many common thing between Czech and British people. Maybe our rational euroskeptism is a next one. „The Czech Republic should leave the EU!“. No, I don't say it should, I'm not sure. But Sarkozy and the Lisbon Treaty are slowly making me sure!
  16. BlackBox

    BlackBox Active Member

    I don't know when Sarkozy said such a thing (that we are danger to EU?). Of course we share some things more with some EU countries than others but I am not sure why you feel distant to France in particular.
    I think you are talking abut European Economic Area (EEA). Switzerland, Norway and a host of small countries are a part of it but not part of EU. They are also part of Schengen treaty.
    Well, the French are not the only one who thinks that, Germans and Brits certainly think that too. However, I agree that advantages of membership barely equal the disadvantages now.

    When talking about Euroscepticism one should make a clear diference between EU as an idea and current state of EU with Lisbon treaty. I am not opposed to EU, but I am strongly opposed to Lisbon treaty in its current form.
  17. Lorelai

    Lorelai Member

    America is now seeing what excessive government control looks like, and it is not a pretty thing. Our war on poverty resulted in more poor. Our war on drugs resulted in more drug addicts.

    I completely agree that the EU is dangerous. Big, uncontrolled governments always lead to socialism, and when the government is corrupt, what can you do?

    Some people have said to me,"If we just get the right people in power..." It is the unlimited power that is the problem. When in history have the right people ever done a good job with unlimited power?

    If you read Austrian Economists, you know why it is an economic impossibility for anyone, or any group of people, with unlimited power to successfully run a country. As government increases, liberty decreases.
  18. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    If you're there when something is written and you help write it you don't have to read the whole thing!

    Anyway he says he's read it now.

    I agree with Lorelai that absolute power is a bad thing BUT that's not what the EU is gearing towards, I think Americas problems go deeper than that, and most of them could be solved if the education system wasn't so terrible. What good is democracy until the majority of your population are educated?
    But there are a million contributing factors to everything, government, economy, votes. It's like our oceans made up of of tiny molecules, each one unknowingly having a tiny effect on how they act as a whole. And we all like to narrow it down to black and white, but everyone in the end is just doing what they think is best at the time and not looking at the big picture, because it's impossible.

    Okay there will always be some people who vote with their gut, and most of us don't have time to learn a lot about politics, everyone has an area of speciality. . .so in the end even those of us who think we are voting cleverly, we are voting on marketing.

    I think that the Lisbon Treaty has given people more power, not less. For one thing The bigger countries can no longer block vote... and there was more but i've forgotten it all because i was only in Ireland to vote for it the first time and didn't bother the second time as I wouldn't be able to vote.

    I wish we could vote for the president though. Von Rompoy seems like a twat... I read "Christian" and i think.. Christ almighty! I've nothing against religious people, but I think politics and religion should be kept away from each other. Any party with the words Christian in their name must, but definition, be unbending fanatics.

    Everything will be fine, the EU is fantastic :)

    They should be more careful with farming and fishing regulations though, they're really fecking up there. Made Norway leave and have caused a lot of Irish fishermen a lot of problems that I don't fully understand because i'm not a fisherman.
  19. Lorelai

    Lorelai Member

    Ctyri koruny:

    I would love to hear your ideas on what Americans should do to improve our education system. I completely agree that it is a disaster. Of course, we keep trying the same recycled ideas...with the same predictable results.
  20. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    Heh I have just seen how it is a disaster, I don't know what the methods are there so I don't know why it's a disaster.

    Some things:

    1. Funding for primary and secondary schools (Basic and High school) should be based on number of students attending and not geography/parents income.
    2. Classes should be randomly monitored and teachers should not have to be given notice before they are monitored BUT no teacher should be able to be fired based on a bad review, just given feedback on how they can do better.
    3. Colleges should teach more teachers more detail on how to teach and not just the subject they will be teaching.
    4. Conferences should be held in cities each year where experienced and respected teachers can give lectures and teachers of various subjects can meet and swap ideas and supplementary activities.
    5. Kids should have to wear uniforms (It cuts down on bullying, fact. )

    The first 3 steps wouldn't cost any more money than what's been done now.
    The fourth one would actually make money if it was done by a non governmental association, because teachers could pay a small sum to get in and text book publishers would pay sponsorship to have their books available and presented there.
    This is already a regular thing in the EFL world, but I don't know about other disciplines.

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