http://www.locallingo.com/czech/grammar ... nsion.html Is this for real? This is correct and everything? Because if so, that means that (by my math) I need to memorize, and be able to instantly recall, ONE HUNDRED AND NINETY-SIY (196) different noun endings, based on gender, terminal sound, case, and number, just to make a BAD, WRONG Czech sentence that will surely get me laughed at. How do I even learn all of these? (Not just memorize all the tables, but be able to keep everything straight in my head and be able to attach correct endings without my mind becoming a spinning miasma of random phonemes) It's like a hamburger that's 16 inches tall; there's no intuitive way to start it. Also, how do I apply these endings (assuming these tables are accurate, and not some perverted joke) to words with irregular plurals, like děti? Man, and to think Mark Twain complained about German. What a whiner. This stuff makes German adjective declension look like a newborn baby.
How do I learn it all properly? What order do I do stuff in? Do I learn the breadth of the genders and terminal sounds, and go one case at a time? Do I learn entire tables at once? How do I practice? Are there any helpful patterns? (I looked for patterns, but there's so much data, it's like the stock market or something, I haven't been able to compare everything) Edit: my question about plurals, esp irregular ones, is still outstanding
Irregular plural is very rare. That is'nt good point to start learning Czech :wink:. OK, "dítě" in singular - model "kuře", "dítě" in plural - model "kost". It is also possible to solve this problem in Moravian way by using regular word "děcko" (model město).
The sing. loc. forms are also different: město - městě děcko - děcku The Czech morphology is very complex, the declension tables in locallingo.com are rather simplified. It is not recommended to learn the entire tables at once. You can start with e.g. the accusative case, which is quite easy task.
Ah, so this is one of those "cheer up kids, it gets a lot worse" sort of things. How are they simplified? Will the tables work for all regular nouns? (Whatever THAT means - I mean, it basically says elsewhere on the site, "how to form the plural: uh, check a dictionary?" Similar to perfective/imperfective, there's no surefire way to form a plural, even most of the time.)
And? Is it model "město"? ... Yes, it is. :twisted: Is it regular? ... Yes, it is. :twisted: OK, I know where is the problem :wink:. I checked the tables at Local Lingo and they are really incomplete. There are more possibilities in loc. form for model "město" (different submodels). In singular suffix -e/ě is original and so it is used for old words (město), the second, modern, possibility is suffix -u and it is used for modern words, loanwords and words with wordstem ending in g, h, ch and k (that is to prevent consonant alternation; "děcko" is one of such words). Analogically in plural, basic form is -ech, more modern is -ách (also used to prevent consonant alternation) and occasional is -ích (I think it is always acceptable, especially for a foreigner, to use incorrect -ách instead of -ích). GoodSirJava, I agree with Zeisig, learn step by step single cases (simultaneously with corresponding prepositions). I think the best order is: 1. nominative 2. accusative 3. dative, genitive, instrumental, locative 4. vocative (provisionally, it is possible to use nominative) Maybe, in the beginning, you needn't models "soudce" and "předseda".
Beginning your study of the Czech language by memorizing declensions is, I think, the wrong approach, for the same reason that memorizing the dictionary is not a good way to begin studying a language. I think it's much more effective to learn the declensions by practice, rather than by rote. The Czechs learn the declensions by rote, yes, but of course they already speak Czech. Your situation is different. Instead, I would recommend beginning by learning something about sentence structure. I think that learning the cases will be easier when you understand why they are useful, and how to use them, rather than to simply learn boring tables of word endings. Sit down with a grammar reference and a good dictionary (I recommend the Josef Fronek dictionary from Leda) and learn how a Czech sentence works. It's quite different from an English or German sentence, although if you're familiar with the German case system, that might be helpful. Practice by parsing simple texts. When writing in Czech, refer regularly to the reference. With practice you will need the reference less.
There was a discussion on Czech text books some time ago. Have a look here. I use "Colloquial Czech" by James Naughton and "Czech Step by Step" by Lída Holá. A very good combination as their styles are very complementary. I also agree with Wicker808's choice of dictionary. Regards Phil
I agree with the textbook recommendations from ph11ip. As far as a straightforward, comprehensive grammar reference, I prefer the material from the Slavic and Eastern European Language Reference Center. http://www.seelrc.org:8080/grammar/mainframe.jsp?nLanguageID=2
I really like the book Czech Step by Step by Lida Hola. I've been using that book with a private tutor. I'm on chapter 6 and have only dealt with 2 cases (nomative and accusative). However, it spends some time on each case so you feel like you have a good grasp on it before moving to the next. Also, you are learning so much else in the midst of learning cases. Czech Step by Step also has a workbook. It may be possible to go through it without a tutor, but I like having someone holding me accountable to do my homework and study. Otherwise, weeks go by and I forget to pick up my book. Also, Lonely Planet's Czech Phrase Book has a few pages with an excellent definition of each case. They help get a good grasp on what the cases mean. You can order all those books on Amazon.com.
Wow... this is one of the most technical grammars I've ever seen. I have formal linguistic training and I don't know what an enclitic auxiliary is. In other words - this is awesome! =D The stuff written by linguists is where it's at; the denser, the better.
Another thing - I ordered James Naughton's Czech grammar on Monday; a hell of a time to ask, but how good is that book? (Please, nobody yell at me for starting off with ordering a grammar etc etc, that is a misconception)
As far as I can tell the James Naughton's book and "Czech step by step" by Lida Hola are the best grammar books on the market.
