Discussion in 'Culture' started by cechofil, Jan 3, 2005.
The music awards? Huh? What is that?
I fully agree with uuspoiss. When I first read ts's answer, I was surprised by its bluntness. At the same time I thought to myself, hmm, that's a pretty good summary of the negative pre-conceived notions you may hear about American women or Americans in general.
I myself don't understand why American women are so frequently referred to as "ugly". I don't even know how that label came about. There are lots of beautiful girls and women in the U.S. Americans especially have the advantage of their varied ethnographical backgrounds, so the mix of people and different looks can be very interesting. Who is this "ugly American woman" anyway? The one whose parents or grandparents came to the U.S. from Italy, Ireland, China, Mexico...?
Let me quote you once more:
So let me get this straight. You complain that men want better looking, but not intelligent women? And at the same time, you are chasing a gorgeous hockey player?
Well, I have a surprise for you. Hockey players are no geniuses. If you decide to go out with someone whose IQ is an order of magnitude lower than yours, you better be prepared to play dumb.
I just want to say I really do appreciate all the honest answers to the question I raised. I knew I could count on authenticity in this forum. I believe that the term "ugly" American does not connote the physical appearance of Americans, but was coined more in regards to the stereotypically bad behavior of Americans.
I meant ugly as in offensive to the sense of sight. This only applies to American women, not Americans in general.
Maybe some of you have heard some foreigners saying that Czech girls are pretty. When you think about it, the sentence says that "girls in other countries are not as pretty as Czech girls" (otherwise the speaker would not bother saying it). Therefore, compared to Czech girls, other girls are not pretty, i.e. they are ugly.
Now your personal prejudice is really showing ts. If this is true, I find it very strange that men were telling me how beautiful I was everywhere I went in the Czech Republic. As a matter of fact, when I went to your national theatre for a concert, I was smiled at and gawked at to an embarrassing extreme by both of the lead male performers in the concert and ballet. And even when I was in the company of my male friend, the border patrol agents were staring at me and telling my friend that I was so pretty. They had my passport and knew I was American. How do you account for that ts?
Oh never mind, I am really not interested in anything more that you have to say on this topic because it is been degraded by your obvious bias.
I'll give you a break, since it is true the request was for negative traits...
Iluvuma1, why don't you tell us about why your fiance/husband(?) likes you?
I am sure my fiance likes me for a variety of reasons. Most of all, probably because we have common interests. He is an athlete, and I enjoy playing sports with him. Also, because I have made a focus of providing a nurturing home life. One thing I appreciate about Czech men is that they are simpler than American men, and are happy just spending time at home with family. We both value family, and he is the only man who has looked forward to going to my parents house for holidays. He is also adored by my family, as he is polite and always bringing pieces of his heritage to their home to share with them. (He brought a beautiful basket for Christmas filled with Czech candies/foods/liquors as well as a calendar of Praha.) I think a big reason he likes me is that I am openminded and genuinely interested in his culture/family and he sees I'm not selfish. He sees that my focus in on us and our future.
Lets face it- he's a man and a good looking one at that. (He did some modeling in CR.) So, of course he's body conscious and physical attractiveness is important to him. We both have indulged more than usual over the holidays with his mother shipping over cookies and my mother/grandmother giving us sweets- and over the past weekend he said "OK- On Monday, its time for us to diet!."
My fiance has told me he thinks Americans are loud- The first couple times we went out I spoke in a loud tone (his English is so-so but improving rapidly) he told me to stop screaming at him. My mom and I laugh- because my dad yells at him when he talks to him. He is too polite to ever say anything to my dad, though. I will tell you all that he had preconceived notions of Americans- and was very surprised when he met my family. I guess movies and TV influenced his perception of families- and he said to me on the car ride home "My gosh! Your family is 90% like mine." He was genuinely surprised.
I have about 8 girlfriends from college that I socialize with regularly. Little by little he has told me more what he really thinks of them/American women. He doesn't particularly like the ones that always are smiling- because he thinks they are fake and insincere. He is very acutely aware of phoniness and is put off by it.
More than American women, I think he dislikes/ or doesn't connect with American men. The only husband/significant other he has bonded with has been a Bosnian foreign man. I think the overconfidence/loudness of them is a factor.
We all have preconceived notions. Some of mine have been supported by his behavior, some have been disproven. A couple weeks ago, we were talking about how we really felt when first dating. I told him I had a headache from concentrating on his heavily accented broken English- and he admitted he wasn't so sure about me at first either because he thought maybe I was a "loose" stereotypical American girl. Women don't marry as young here- and he said that he thought any woman that was unmarried after 25 must have something wrong with her. We both laughed because I told him when I told my dad about our engagement, my dad said "I wish you the best, but keep in mind he's an Eastern European man. (What he meant is that Eastern European men are thought of as being disrespectful to women here.) One of my good men friends said "Watch out- you're going to find yourself in Czechoslovakia tied to a goat!"
I guess my point is that everyone has "negative perceptions" but not to trust the media. And most certainly not Melrose Place!
According to all the opinions expressed here I must be an aberration of sorts as I have always been told that I am very soft spoken. My Czech friend says that I speak softer and slower than many Americans so he is able to communicate with me very well. But my point in relating this is that it's too bad that everyone makes such sweeping assumptions about an entire population and gender of people. It's quite sad really but I will not be letting this experience taint my affection for the Czech Republic.
Exactly. You're going to find yourself in Czechoslovakia tied to a goat! is the same kind of negative perception (or prejudice even) as American women are fat, ugly, loud etc. When you figure out why your American friends percieve Eastern Europeans as they do, you'll probably be able to understand where this attitude towards American women comes from. Let us know too then.
BTW, I've seen a few episodes of Melrose Place - cannot recall any fat or especially ugly people from there... or any other US series, come to think of it (well, there is Oprah of course...). Is there maybe an issue in the fact that American movies and soaps and things tend to idealize people and the reality turns out to be disappointing for foreigners, whereas European cinema/TV is more realistic? This is a media specific question of course (and possibly slightly off topic as well), I refuse to believe that people form their opinions based only on TV.
No s h i t, Sherlock. Tell us what we DON'T know. Next time, I would recommend you to arrive at your premeditated conclusion earlier in the thread; this one is too long.
You tried very hard to dispell the myths I mentioned. Too bad all of that was in vain, as no one on this forum believes that all Americans are fat, ugly, ... , whatever. If I were you, I would focus on the myth that Americans are stupid, dispelling that seems to be your weak side.
By the way, I think I had at least as much fun as you did, so if your secondary goal was to piss people off, you failed.
I was referring to dating (mating?) habits. The perception of Americans being fat or ugly has different roots, of course.
Ok ts, checkmate. I give up. I am tired. FYI, I more than meet the requirements to join MENSA but maybe I should not have given up my playing days of chess. You win.
My goal was to be a fly on the wall. I never thought about pissing people off . I am not the antagonistic type. Maybe I was looking for a little a little fun, though.
So, your beautiful and smart? Are you married? You must be hot if you got a reaction out of those border patrol guys. I found them to be very dry and without humor.
I am most decidedly and happily divorced from a madman. I actually thought the Border Patrol guys were very cute and I am hopelessly hooked on the accent but then I have already a Czech guy that strikes my fancy. Maybe I should consider back-up orders, though...
This has been an interesting discussion. Just a reminder though to please keep it civil and avoid personal attacks. Thanks.
You haven't heard my southern accent yet! :wink:
paulthevol, hmmm....you did post that chivalrous defense of American women on page two :wink:
I am American, and I'm about to beam with self confidence!! Please don't encourage me to become the stereotypical American like that. HMMM...... is what I was thinking!
Beam away Paul. I find self confidence in a man an integral part of attraction. But careful , I should be. My primary concern is that mutually heightened linguistics could arouse more than intended, propelling ts to mount new campaign, this time against American male. I would feel somehow responsible and ts may suceed in making me cry this time. Also, too playful banter could stimulate acts of censorship bringing provocative conversation to a close. And please Paul, don't seduce with hmmm...anymore, as it's hard enough for me concentrate on difficult task at hand, trying to dispell prior assertions made regarding absent virtues of American women.
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