What is it that intrigues foreigners about CZ women?

Discussion in 'Culture' started by caulfield2, Oct 10, 2006.

  1. alenastef

    alenastef Well-Known Member

  2. Natureboy

    Natureboy Active Member

    (LOL! But you may perhaps be able to translate this-- what does Mr. Holden Caulfield have that so captures your attentions?)

    I wonder: Does celebrity actually impact your feminine perception of eligable men in one way or another, would you be predisposed to resisting being swept off by one?

    Sorry but I am indeed impressed with the local foreign-language skills around here...
  3. caulfield2

    caulfield2 Well-Known Member

    Okay, is there a Czech woman who would be universally (let's say 9 of 10 people walking down the street would turn their heads) described as beautiful or stunning (fill in the adjective), BUT not a model, not a celebrity...

    that has all these qualities you embody?

    What I am getting at is that there are plenty of beautiful, superficial women in the US (the shopping, spa, plastic surgery, trophy wife crowd)...it's obviously common all over the world. But is there a place where women are not hypersensitive to the fact that they're beautiful, men fall all over themselves trying to woo them...with the end result that the woman's pride is actually in her appearance and not her intelligence, personality, sense of humor, charm or other abilities?

    I would say Princess Diana had some of these qualities...in the US, Angelina Jolie has really impressed me recently with her work abroad with the UN, Millenium Villages project, awareness for adoption. John F. Kennedy, Jr., as a male, had so many positive qualities about him. However, he was haunted by the idea he was considered an intellectual lightweight because he had so much trouble passing the legal/bar exam.

    OF COURSE, you can by cynical and think everything she does is driven by a press agent or publicist and that none of it comes naturally or intuitively as a human being that's not manipulated by puppet strings.
  4. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Oh, Natureboy your very long lamentation is good example of cheap antiamericanism (many thanks to Czech president for this terminus technicus).

    Just a little more realism, please. It is'nt better with other states (nations). A little demonstration of Czech peacefulness:

    It was Czechoslovakia who initiated and stoked the Chaco War.
    It was Czechoslovakia who expelled Germans out of the country.
    It was Czechoslovakia who broke UN-embargo and supplied Israel with weapons.
    It was Czechoslovakia who broke UN-embargo and supplied Palestinians with weapons.
    It was Czechoslovakia who broke UN-embargo and trained pilots on both sides of Egyptian-Israeli war.
    It was Czechoslovakia who supplied terrorists in the whole world with semtex.
    It was Czechoslovakia who trained Libyan terrorists.

    And on the other hand, Czechoslovakian Legions as a outside army did survive the Russian winter and even vodka.
    I can't imagine Martina Navrátilová or Magda Korbelová (aka Madeleine Albright) in a pornographic film :twisted: :twisted:.
  5. alenastef

    alenastef Well-Known Member

    :D Wer, I thought about Ms. Albright too. But I am not sure about the beautiful-but-no-model stuff :wink:

    Caulfield: The fact that people turn their heads is in reciprocal proportion with the amount of beauties walking down the street.

    In southern Italy I feel like a princess. In CZ I am just one in the grey crowd.
  6. caulfield2

    caulfield2 Well-Known Member

    I didn't say ALL....I said mostly. By the way, Alena, do you not get this reaction in your own country because of your hair color? Do blondes get more attention, just like in the US?

    You've come up with two examples of women, but neither fit the category I mentioned.

    Martina Navratilova has done tons of good to help women come out of the closet (she was one of the first and most prominent to do so), and she was probably the greatest female tennis player of the last 50 years, along with Steffi Graf. But she was hardly known for her beauty. Same with Hana Mandlikova. You also have Ivan Lendl on the male side.

    So we have Vaclav Havel, tennis players and Madeline Albright, who was intellectually a giant but hasn't recently turned a head...and most of her fame occured after she left the CR.

    Please don't mention Donald Trump's wife from Zlin, either, lol.
  7. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Yes, I know. I tried to demonstrate that the real famous Czech women don't (resp needn't) exhibit their nationality. But a porno star? What else than Czech nationality (used as exoticness factor) could she offer.
  8. Natureboy

    Natureboy Active Member

    Thank you for correcting me about the arms suppliers in the CR, surely however these were men not women for the most part-- a different species altogether. There are lots of reasons to write people off as spousal candidates, at the top of the list is murder and producing and supplying arms...

    Could it not be that shallow, market-driven interpretations of beauty distort one's self image, and that real beauty comes from the depth of one's soul-- it is this compassionate, romantic soul that seems to flee in models often (as a designer I've had enough contact with models and beauty profesionals to know). Many/most healthy women are indeed spectacular in many ways, but even spectacularly photogenic females, if arrogant and tepid, lack genuine attractiveness in any real sense.

    What is the obsession with albino nordic types anyway? It is a very difficult lot in life, to be beautiful and blond in the EU, I lives for 6 years with one of these from Germany, her entire psyche was wrapped up in her looks, it was disasterous for her to turn 26, how shallow is that?

    Besides, being blond myself, (of Polish and Russian and Austrian origin), it is a very bad skin-type for dealing with the sun agt the beach... light people seem destined to fade away genetically, it is a recessive trait only good for getting vitamin D in the northern climes.

    I think it is time to fully celebrate the dark-haired beauties of this region, blond is boring, unless it is completely natural, and the person is not completely corrupted by this marketing mania for blond women.

    Question, this wonderful suffix "...ova" (egg in latin) seems to be attached to women's last names there, foregive my idiocy, but is that a particularly Czech suffix, and if so, is Maria Sharapova originally Czech? This is an example of a truly beautiful woman, not a model-type so much, but the passion in her eyes, her strength and determination for such a youngster-- this is true beauty.

    Of course I am biased, having helped her win the US open (I won't say how, except that she claims ceretain earrings give her luck...)

    Jewelry can be about magic and poetic grace and passion long before being a materialistic luxury pursuit-- There are better ways to encircle graceful wrists with magical baubles than haunting the Ponte Veccio--

    Is beauty indeed only about head-turning, or is there still a romantic element, the universe spinning in the eyes of a beloved...

    As to Hungarians, did anyone see Gloomy Sunday? To me the character and the actress personified by Erika Marozsán represents profound beauty, and could lead us obsolete romantics to obsession about Czech, Hungarian and Russian women--

    Did anyone ever notice that women can make any language sexy? In this film, even German sounds amazing when spoken by this actress (while German men seem to often have lisps and spit when they talk). Even Polish is alluring when spoken by women-- I think it has to do with the refinement of the female tongue...

    What is the status of antisemitism in the CR? I know from certain staff that Poles seem to feel the Jews are still taking over their government, is there more tolerance in Prague, or is it as grim as reported antisemitism in Budapest and Romania?
  9. caulfield2

    caulfield2 Well-Known Member

    Sharapova is definitely Russian. Although she was born there, she spent almost all of her time from 10 on at the Nick Bolleteri tennis academy in Florida.

    Every Russian woman's name comes from the father...Andropov is Andropova, Smirnov/a, Sharapov/a.

    My wife (we're separated) has the last name Pavlova. Remember Dr. Pavlov and his experiments with dogs?

    In fact, at one point, 9 of the Top 25 female tennis players in the world were Russian.

    Are you telling me you sent her jewelry or a necklace and she now wears it on court? Are you stalking her? What?
  10. Natureboy

    Natureboy Active Member

    Stalking?? :p
    I think she would have swatted my head off with her back hand were that the case-- Maria is apparently an independent person, making her own choices of beautiful good luck charms... she has a very fun and lovely esthetic with her accessories, and a joy to watch.

    Not since Tina Turner has a 'celebrity' so touched me personally with her choices (though many celebrities buy things if you offer the best).
    I love women, an antiquated ethic it seems, but every once in a while some great woman sees the spark of magic and fun and adoration expressed through simple adornment.

    Thanks for clarifying the 'ova' element, I think that is so divine, and beautiful (not sure why!) I want to marry a woman wth a last name that ends in ova, even if I have to name her myself!
  11. caulfield2

    caulfield2 Well-Known Member

    Why is that an antiquated ethic, to love women?

    Not sure that I understand.
  12. Natureboy

    Natureboy Active Member

    Referring to the sort of old-world romanticism of the film mentioned, a certain poetic depth, a rather impractical love of soul over glitze and flash of our flash-bulb red-carpet culture, a humanistic approach to great music, art and culture, stemming from a time predating the cult of celebrity and consumerism which everyone seems so mesmerized by--

    This kind of thing is presently entirely out of style, at least in NYC and LA.
    Wouldn't you agree?
  13. caulfield2

    caulfield2 Well-Known Member

    I've lived in the Midwest my entire life. Definitely more family values oriented that either coast, where it's probably equally acceptable to marry or to choose career (for women).

    I just think relationships are getting to become more like business mergers....cost/benefit analysis. It's definitely less romantic, and more pragmatic, I guess.
  14. Natureboy

    Natureboy Active Member

    I just think relationships are getting to become more like business mergers....cost/benefit analysis. It's definitely less romantic, and more pragmatic, I guess.

    Caulfield, I think you put your finger on it precisely-- thank you for clarifying that-- this is the downside of capitalism, when our most intimate choices and relations are governed by business decisions and not by passion and loyalty and dedication and love. No wonder marriage has faled as an institution here!

    We see how this mode of relating to eachother is destroying the family, and the family is such a wonderful and profoundly human thing... It disturbes me greatly to see how fast this ethical change has taken place, and how former East-block nations seem to strive toward the great god of american-style capitalism-- very disturbing indeed--

    Somehow the idea of commitment and love and family has been conflated with sexism perhaps. Whtever the reason, this is the first time in the biology of the species that the basic social group has been so completely mocked-- I can only imagine the consequences--

    Guess I'm just old fashioned, seeking someone to be old-fasioned about who isn't interested in only in getting claws into assets!

    In answer to the topic you first proposed, perhaps it is a quest to escape this dynamic and to find real women who believe in love and family and romance, and commitment-- perhaps this is the reason some seek love in the Czech Republic (or perhaps this is just overblkown romanticized wishful thinking-- I don't know any expat Americans who have married Czech women)

    Heaven knows there are plenty of emaciated models and model-wannabes all over the place in the US, never before has the US had such an enormous crop of liposucted, swolen-lipped, bleach-blonded manipulative women after one's assets as this countyr now has--

    I still maintain that beauty is more than follicle-deep. Perhaps the East, having been preserved from shallowness for this bad period in which American marketing hypnotized everyone on earth, perhaps these are the last roots of what was once truly beautiful and human about European culture.

    But I could be barking up the wrong tree, or in fact the forest may be already completly cut down by now, or perhaps I can't see the trees for the forest, all I know is I'm generally sick to death of the entire species of American women, for the reason that marketing has so profoundly altered the entire culture of Women in this country, they are categoricaqlly unhappy with everything to do with commitment, having been lead to such insecurity by the marketing machine.

    I only hope I can find one good, normal woman before the American disease finally spreads to the rest of Europe!
  15. alenastef

    alenastef Well-Known Member

  16. caulfield2

    caulfield2 Well-Known Member

    Without having to write too much, can you summarize?

    From having been with a Russian for 3+ years, I can think of a few differences....

    1) Relationships in Russia seem to be more pragmatic and less romantic, more about economic survival and "being able to get along with each other" than the Hollywood notions of true romance, love at first sight, fireworks, etc.

    2) It's very difficult for Russian people to share their feelings and emotions. They think Americans are too "touchy-feely," too willing to speak about their problems/difficulties/issues in public (like the Oprah or Dr. Phil shows), too willing to draw attention to themselves. The general philosophy is something along the lines of "why is my problem so unique or special when many more have a worse life than I do?"

    3) General distate for analyzying problems in a relationship, talking through things, rehashing them....there's a problem, explosion/fight/argument, then, five minutes later, it's as if it never happened at all. And no willingness to "analyze" or "discuss" what caused the problem in the first place so as to prevent a future problem.

    4) Orthodox Church is completely different in many facets...and, of course, many Russians are atheists. When marriages and relationships have problems in the US, counseling through religious figures or "counselors" is almost standard now, not so much in Russia.

    The point of my post is NOT to say this this necessarily applies specifically or generally to Czechs. I was just hoping to see if there are any commonalities...how much might be specific to Russia....and how much might be specific to just one particular woman!!!
  17. Rommie

    Rommie Well-Known Member

    Now when I´ve read that, I find the situation here in Czech very similar to the situation in Russia .
  18. Natureboy

    Natureboy Active Member

    1) Relationships in Russia seem to be more pragmatic and less romantic, more about economic survival and "being able to get along with each other" than the Hollywood notions of true romance, love at first sight, fireworks, etc.
  19. Natureboy

    Natureboy Active Member

    Woops this was the one I meant to quote!

    "3) General distate for analyzying problems in a relationship, talking through things, rehashing them....there's a problem, explosion/fight/argument, then, five minutes later, it's as if it never happened at all. And no willingness to "analyze" or "discuss" what caused the problem in the first place so as to prevent a future problem. "
  20. caulfield2

    caulfield2 Well-Known Member

    Usually, she would lose it, then apologize afterwards and pretend as if it had never happened.

    It was never about jealousy/possessiveness, although Russian women "can" be that....heck, all people can be that if they're with the right (or wrong person) I think.

    Part of the problem was that she was 20-23 years old, so she wasn't fully mature. A woman in her late 20's or early 30's with children probably would not react in the same way.

    She's also an only child and somewhat spoiled, and I think she was borderline abused (psychologically, and perhaps physically) by her stepfather. Or maybe that's how all models act! (her website is www.irina.s5.com her e-mail address on the site doesn't work any more so I don't mind people seeing it).

    Yes, I was usually the one who bore the brunt of the attacks...didn't fire back, and just "took it." Which was infuriating, that had the effect of making me the "saint" and the one who was "always right" and never the cause of any of the problems. Just like my students, as soon as you yell or argue back, you've "lost" the argument before it has even started, even if you "win," if that makes any sense.

    I do know a lot of Russian women (especially with kids) who will have sex with the foreign men "just to see if they can tolerate it," because they are so positive about the better lives and opportunities available for their children in the US. Fortunately, I was not a victim of the woman who comes to the US and files false domestic violence (DV) charges to get her citizenship quickly and almost automatically. This has been known to happen with many Ukrainian women, who are like the Nigerians of the international scamming world.

    By the way, the suffix "-enko" is the most common for Ukraine, like "ova" for many Eastern block countries, like CR and Russia.

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