Would you still travel?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Malnik, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. Malnik

    Malnik Well-Known Member

    Hiya all....its been a while.....

    I was wondering what the attitude of people on here/in CR, regarding the attacks on London. I have spoken to a few people in CR in the last few days and the impression i get is they would not travel to London at the present time. They tell me they dont want CR to get involved and perhaps become a target for terrorism. It seems like a 'if we keep our heads down no-one will notice us' syndrome. The bad news for that is - they already have.
    I have a relative that was due over in 10 days who isn't coming because they are frightened.........
    This is ofcourse exactly what the terrorists wanted.

    Also I wondered if the 2 minute silence was observed on Thursday, as it was in most European countries.

    As some of you know, i work on the London Underground, Kings Cross is on my patch. Whilst I was not involved directly with the train in the incident, some of my my colleagues were...... the reports and conversations i have read are pretty distressing.

    We are not afraid.....you shouldn't be either.

  2. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member

    Here in the U.S., we feel for all of you in the U.K., Mal. It was a cowardly act performed by cowards, who didn't even care to live to face the consequences of their actions. I agree that we should not be afraid of such thugs. They are trying to dictate foreign policy to the rest of the world with such acts, and unfortunately, many western countries are doing exactly what the terrorists want with their (as you aptly called it) "keep our heads down" policy. It's time to show a more united front across the world against such acts!
  3. magan

    magan Well-Known Member

    I am very very sorry and it would not hold me from coming to London. I have been there many times and love the city. It was just heart breaking to see places I have been to and love.

    My family and friends in Canada are thinking of you all and hope it will not keep visitors from coming and Londoners from living regular lives. Such a cowardly and low, dispicable act should not be encouraged by signs of fear.
  4. evian

    evian Well-Known Member

    Firstly I'd like to start by saying my condolences go out to all those who are in some way effected or dealt with the recent atrocities in London.
    I was actually staying in the Hostel located directly across the street from King's Cross Station at the exact same time, the year prior. I was reflecting on this situation with my family and we discussed that if we were there at this time this year, we would most certainly left London due to fear of the unknown. However, we would not have left UK altogether.
    I must say that I strongly dissaprove of living a life that coincides with the goals of terrorist groups. I have visited Los Angeles 2 weeks after 9/11 and also 5 weeks after the Bali bombing, both unbeknownst to what was to occur prior to my travel. I encountered no problems or discrepencies whilst in both countries. On the plus side, it meant many of the attractions were less crowded.
    So in short I would say that the bombings in London would in no way cause any hesitation for me to visit in the near future.
  5. FierceKitty

    FierceKitty Well-Known Member

    Why on earth do you always find people complaining that terrorists are cowards? Does it really make acts of mass murder more acceptable if the killers are brave? Not to mention the way that the word "cowardly" was used so often after 9/11, talking about men who were stupid and brutal, but who certainly showed a bravery in carrying out their ideals that I hope I could find in myself if I ever had to give my life for what I believe in.
    Concentrate on the real issue, in other words. Being murderers is quite bad enough; there's no need to go on about irrelevancies like their courage or lack thereof.
  6. evian

    evian Well-Known Member

    Well that is not all true, the cowardess portrayed of the Al-qaeda and associated terrosists is actually due with the fact that many of them involved (not the sucidial individuals) will either refuse to show their face, escape America or wherever into exile or even go into hiding (e.g. Osama Bin Laden).
  7. FierceKitty

    FierceKitty Well-Known Member

    If that's cowardice (the correct form of the word, btw), then there isn't one of us who qualifies as brave. I'd be glad to see bin Laden's name on a tombstone, preferably next to George Bush's, but I'll assume he's got the basic mathematical sense not to show his face while it's attached to a head carrying a twenty-five million-dollar bounty. Generals don't often fight in the front line, these days. This is hardly a result of fear.
  8. evian

    evian Well-Known Member

    While yes, it is the most sensible and sane option to make oneself as inconspicuous as possible following an act of terrorism that has a direct relationship in the cause of the atrocities. However, escaping into exile, going into hiding, or simply running away from it all after committing such terrible acts against humanity is just an extended form of cowardice.
  9. Eva2

    Eva2 Well-Known Member

    There is an element of cowardice insofar as they believe that their martyr death will instanlly lead them to life in paradise. All you have to do is activate the explosifs and a split second later you land on a velvet couch, a glass of wine in hand and a flock of doe-eyed virgins competing for your attention. Perks include an eternal erection and extasy so powerful that will make you faint with pleasure. (I'm freely quoting a hadith.) In short this kind of suicide is nothing more than a desire of upgrading from economy to the business class.

    Here is an interesting analysis of the jihadi's mind.

    A Poverty of Dignity and a Wealth of Rage

    Published: July 15, 2005

    A few years ago I was visiting Bahrain and sitting with friends in a fish restaurant when news appeared on an overhead TV about Muslim terrorists, men and women, who had taken hostages in Russia. What struck me, though, was the instinctive reaction of the Bahraini businessman sitting next to me, who muttered under his breath, "Why are we in every story?" The "we" in question was Muslims.

    The answer to that question is one of the most important issues in geopolitics today: Why are young Sunni Muslim males, from London to Riyadh and Bali to Baghdad, so willing to blow up themselves and others in the name of their religion? Of course, not all Muslims are suicide bombers; it would be ludicrous to suggest that.

    But virtually all suicide bombers, of late, have been Sunni Muslims. There are a lot of angry people in the world. Angry Mexicans. Angry Africans. Angry Norwegians. But the only ones who seem to feel entitled and motivated to kill themselves and totally innocent people, including other Muslims, over their anger are young Sunni radicals. What is going on?

    Neither we nor the Muslim world can run away from this question any longer. This is especially true when it comes to people like Muhammad Bouyeri - a Dutch citizen of Moroccan origin who last year tracked down the Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, a critic of Islamic intolerance, on an Amsterdam street, shot him 15 times and slit his throat with a butcher knife. He told a Dutch court on the final day of his trial on Tuesday: "I take complete responsibility for my actions. I acted purely in the name of my religion."

    Clearly, several things are at work. One is that Europe is not a melting pot and has never adequately integrated its Muslim minorities, who, as The Financial Times put it, often find themselves "cut off from their country, language and culture of origin" without being assimilated into Europe, making them easy prey for peddlers of a new jihadist identity.

    Also at work is Sunni Islam's struggle with modernity. Islam has a long tradition of tolerating other religions, but only on the basis of the supremacy of Islam, not equality with Islam. Islam's self-identity is that it is the authentic and ideal expression of monotheism. Muslims are raised with the view that Islam is God 3.0, Christianity is God 2.0, Judaism is God 1.0, and Hinduism is God 0.0.

    Part of what seems to be going on with these young Muslim males is that they are, on the one hand, tempted by Western society, and ashamed of being tempted. On the other hand, they are humiliated by Western society because while Sunni Islamic civilization is supposed to be superior, its decision to ban the reform and reinterpretation of Islam since the 12th century has choked the spirit of innovation out of Muslim lands, and left the Islamic world less powerful, less economically developed, less technically advanced than God 2.0, 1.0 and 0.0.

    "Some of these young Muslim men are tempted by a civilization they consider morally inferior, and they are humiliated by the fact that, while having been taught their faith is supreme, other civilizations seem to be doing much better," said Raymond Stock, the Cairo-based biographer and translator of Naguib Mahfouz. "When the inner conflict becomes too great, some are turned by recruiters to seek the sick prestige of 'martyrdom' by fighting the allegedly unjust occupation of Muslim lands and the 'decadence' in our own."

    This is not about the poverty of money. This is about the poverty of dignity and the rage it can trigger.
  10. FierceKitty

    FierceKitty Well-Known Member

    Well, I'm sure you're all perfectly right.
  11. Malnik

    Malnik Well-Known Member

    Oh Kitty....... sometimes you can be sooooooooo silly.

    OK, its not exactly a cowardly act to blow people up. But it is silly. Stupid in fact. Because somehow that person has been tricked into thinking the items listed above in another message will belong to them. That really is stupid!
    But i guess if you asked them if they wanted to lose a leg, or bleed to death in a black hole, they would probably shy away - too painful. Press the button and gone please - pain hurts. (Thats why its called pain i guess). So perhaps thats also cowardly?
    The cowardly bit comes in from the people who convinced them that is what awaits them. To frightened to do it themselves, knowing that the rewards actually aren't there or they would do it themselves. Find some other vulnerable sucker to do it by with lies. Thats the cowardly bit.

    Whats all that about with George Bush??? Why would you like to see him dead?

    Your friend......

  12. Sova

    Sova Well-Known Member


    These actions might be considered bravery if they were aimed at military targets; however, they went after "soft" targets, i.e. unarmed civilians. It's like calling parental child abuse bravery. Taking a fight to people who are uninvolved, noncombatants is indeed cowardice. Or do we forget that when an American bomb accidentally falls on a house or school, the same "brave" people specifically targeting innocents accuse the U.S. of cowardice. Let's not stoop to the same dual standards as such.

    By the way, willingness to die for a cause is not necessarily bravery. It could just as easily be desperation, blind hatred, or even selfishness (e.g. the whole "flock of virgins" thing).
  13. Eva2

    Eva2 Well-Known Member

    Well, there are supposed to be 72 virgins for every brave martyr. In fact, there will be only one for all of them and she will be seventy-two. :evil:
  14. Qcumber

    Qcumber Well-Known Member

    There were similar terrorist attacks in Paris some years ago, and naturally enough the number of foreign visitors dropped. There were articles in the British and US media warning their citizens against the hazards when flying to France. Nothing surprising. I don't remember any article saying let's all flock to France to show our support, and make the terrorists understand that they failed. After all we are all ordinary human beings.

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