CZ-EN: octl

Discussion in 'Vocabulary & Translation Help' started by skh, Sep 11, 2008.

  1. skh

    skh Member

    The first sentence of Milan Kundera's "Žert" is:

    Tak jsem se po mnoha letech octl zase najednou doma.

    "octl" looks like a past participle to me, but of which verb? What was he doing after many years, all of a sudden, again, at home? I have looked in all my books and lists and have not found "octl" anywhere.

    Any help greatly appreciated.

  2. meluzina

    meluzina Well-Known Member

    the verb (reflexive) i believe is "octnout se" - to find oneself

    Tak jsem se po mnoha letech octl zase najednou doma.

    Thus, after many years, I suddenly found myself at home once again.
  3. Polednikova

    Polednikova Well-Known Member

    What a useful verb. I will try to remember that one. Thanks.
  4. meluzina

    meluzina Well-Known Member

  5. skh

    skh Member

    Ah! Thanks a lot for the quick help ;)

  6. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    The verb “octnout se” has a doublet form “ocitnout se”, the latter is possibly more common (and less formal).
  7. skh

    skh Member

    Also, is it correct that verbs ending in -nout very often have the past participle ending just in -l?

    What confused me was that "octl" is so short that I was sure it must be some irregular verb and then searched in the wrong places.

    (I know this is more a grammar than a vocabulary question now, feel free to move it elsewhere.)

    Again, děkuju mockrát to all of you. (Ja se řekne česky "to all of you"? ;) )

  8. Polednikova

    Polednikova Well-Known Member

    I knew it couldn't be that simple!
  9. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    The verbs ending in “-nout” are either of the model “tisknout” or “minout” (see Wikipedia for the models). The participle of the first model ends in “-l” in literal Czech or in “-nul” in colloquial Czech (often accepted as literal) and the participle of the latter model ends always in “-nul”.

    to all of you = (vám) všem, každému, všem z vás, každému z vás
  10. Alexx

    Alexx Well-Known Member

    octnout se - (past) octl se
    ocitnout se - (past) ocitl se

    The second one is much more common, and easier to pronounce. I wonder how would you native english pronounce "octl". Off topic, but it probably must be quite difficult to say world like "plst", "smrk", "srst", "smrt", isn't is?
  11. Troll

    Troll Well-Known Member

    For me it is impossible to say without sputtering such words like sixth, cloths, baths etc.
  12. skh

    skh Member

    No. :) (I'm a native german though, not sure if that makes a difference.)

    As long as the 'l' or 'r' are syllabic (and I assume it is in octl), it is quite manageable. Compare english "fiddlesticks", where the e is not pronounced and you actually have the cluster "dlst" with a syllabic l.

    I love how my czech colleagues pronounce "XML" (two syllables) and "HTML" (three) without wasting precious vowels. ;)
  13. MK

    MK Well-Known Member

    No problem: Ks-M-L, H-T-M-L the same way like Germans voice it. The same for PC. :wink:

    o ocitnout se i octnout se, 1. j. ocitnu se i octnu se; příč. ocitl se, ocitnul se i octl se, octnul se

    ocitnout se - can be pronounced much easier
  14. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Běžel jsem před nepřátelí a rychle jsem se snažil skrýt se v uličce. Vůbec jsem ale nevěděl, že tam mě čekali jejích přátelé.
    Ocitl jsem se tehdy v ještě horší situaci. Z zbláta do louže.

    There are many words I am sure I pronounce incorrectly.
    like.....vlhkost...that seems to me really hard

    srdce was really hard at first, but I think I got it now.

    I figured out I was pronouncing it like sýr-dce

    fiddlesticks....true the 'e' is not at all pronounced, but you have to leave a space for the syllable break.
    Three distinct sounds fi-dl-sticks..
    Not sure where the expression comes from.
    Of course, literal translation could be 'the bow for a violin',
    but it's not used that way, it's an old expression meaning something like 'Aw shux', 'shoot', 'daggone it'
  15. Alexx

    Alexx Well-Known Member


    Sr like Sr in Sri Lanka
    dce (= ce, d is silent) like ce in Ceylon (or cent)

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