Discussion in 'Vocabulary & Translation Help' started by kilosierra, Mar 11, 2009.
That describes the situation very well, Scrimshaw.
Like Gina says, there are not many fords left in Britain (although there is still a proper one in a village 5 miles from me!). But if you look at how many names of villages, towns and cities in England end in 'ford' you will get some idea of how many there used to be before building bridges became more common place.
There exist "fords" in Czechia, too:
"Havlíčkův Brod", "Český Brod", "Uherský Brod", "Vyšší brod", "Železný Brod", "Brod nad Tichou", "Brod nad Dyjí" and smaller ones.
Frankfurt, Schweinfurt, Fürth, Furth im Walde, Bad Salzdetfurth, Steinfurt, Dietfurt, Ditfurth, Drensteinfurt, Erfurt, Furttal, Haßfurt, Herford (Heeresfurt), Klagenfurt, Ochsenfurt, Wendefurth, ... 8)
Thank you for that Karel. I was vaguely aware of "furt" but "brod" is a new word for me.
I always find things like this interesting about languages - they might be very different in some ways but so similar in others.
Yea, brod is a new word for me too.
I did not relate the 'ford' at the end of names with ford on a river.
So Stratford on Avon would be 'the ford at Strat(or Strat's Ford) on the river Avon.
Jezdec, který pracoval pro kurýrní poštu, jel plnou rychlostí přeš brod k příšti stanici, kde ho čekal čerstvý kůň.
I couldn't resist looking into this further.
Stratford as a name is more common-place than just the town of Shakespeare fame. Sources indicate that the meaning is most usually "ford on a Roman road". Strat comes from the Old English word "straet", which itself is borrowed from the Latin"via strata", or "paved way", and gives us today's word "street". Ford has already been discussed.
A Roman road crossed the river Avon here
Just one note - the word "brod" in croatian/serbian means "ship". False friends again
Never would have guessed that the word 'street' has such a background, but it is interesting. So much of today's language has Latin roots.
And your right Alexxi, watch out for those false friends.
One man's ship can be another man's ford.
And 'furt' in german is so close to 'fort' in english. There might be some connection there.
and the word 'via' has really kept it's Latin meaning. Means the same in latin, czech, and english. Probably the other romance languages too.
German die Furt is English ford. English fort (and German das Fort) is obviously from Latin fortificatio, from Latin fors (= power, force). Finally German adverb fort is English forth, in colloquial Czech furt (or imrvére furt < immerwärend fort = on and on, steadily on).
(Ger. = Eng. = Cz.)
die Furt = ford = brod
das Fort = fort = pevnost
fort = forth = dále, stále, furt
The word via is not used in Czech.
In the Romance languages: It. via (strada), Fr. voie (hence voyage), Sp. vía (viaje).
The noun brod is derived from the verb břísti: bředu, bředeš, břede, ... (= to wade).
Rád kocour ryby jídá, ale nerad pro ně do vody břede. :wink:
I'd heard of brod as a place name, but I didn't know that it meant ford. And I'm from a town called Stockport, about 10 miles south of Manchester. I seem to remember being told as a child that it was originally called Stockford or the place where stock used to cross the River Mersey.
Neviděl jsem nikdy kocour ve vodě. Kocour nebřede do vody, protože neumí plout.
břísti....břed.....břeh...shore, pobřeh...coast, brod..ford, ..czech makes such logical use of language
What's up with our english language Polednikova?
all those written but silent 'ghś' and such.
or sometimes they sound like 'F'.
in English ghoti spells or is pronounced "fish"
tough = f
women = i
nation = sh
* plavat x plout = swim x sail, though its quite similar..
**h => switchs to ž
not sure if břeh and břísti are related..
Most likely not. “Brod” and “břísti” is traceable only in Slavic and Baltic languages.
“Břeh” shares the same Indo-European origin (meaning: high, elevated) with German “Berg” (= hill), English “fort”, English “barrow” (= mound, hill; not wheelbarrow) or Welsh “bre” (=highland, hill).
Logical? What do you mean? That there is a lot of cognates within Czech?
That could be right, all Slavic vocabulary is tracable to small set of about 2000 word stems.
Yes, that's what I meant.
It seems verbs and nouns share the same root, english does that too, but in czech it seems more prevalent..
Kouzelník vykouzel na sklo okna kouzelné růži, aby své kouzlo okouzlo novomanžele.
The magician conjured up on the window pane a magic rose, so that his magic would enchant the newlyweds.
The root 'kouz' is recognizable in all the words.
I see lots of examples like this.
Very efficient use of the language.
Verb and noun are the most primitive kind of cognates. :wink:
See this list of nouns, for siplicity without verbal nouns and negations, all derived from the stem “rod”:
And one could extend this with another list of similar length as the stem “rod” is cognate to the stem “růst” (= growth). :twisted:
“Okouzlit kouzlem” is not exactly elegant as for the style, but it is nice example of pleonasm.
Yes, Glen. Whenever I'm struggling with Czech, I think about English pronunciation and think that perhaps Czech's not so bad after all!
(What on earth is ghoti? :? )
ghoti can be pronounced fish (except that ti is pronounced as sh only in Latin suffix -tion)
It is probable that English gh was pronounced similarly like German ch in such words like:
night = Nacht
light = Licht
knight = Knecht
daughter = Tochter
eight = acht
right = recht
Reportedly some Scottish people still pronounce it the old way.
and the pronunciation of o in women is a singular instance in the English language
but it is only a joke, not an attempt at any real linguistic investigation :wink:
Separate names with a comma.