help with a sentence

Discussion in 'Vocabulary & Translation Help' started by brandonm78, Nov 2, 2007.

  1. brandonm78

    brandonm78 Member

    Can you help me translate this to english:

    co se děje ... si asi ani nedovedu představit, co? bracha?

  2. hribecek

    hribecek Well-Known Member

    Is it-
    what is happening...maybe I can't even begin to imagine, can I? Huh brother?
    I think the Czech is wrong though so maybe a non-native came up with it cuz surely 'si' would be after 'ani' (second position in the clause rule) and 'bracha' should use the vocative case - bracho.
    Where did you get it from?
  3. Petr_B

    Petr_B Well-Known Member

    The sentence in Czech is fine. Sure, it's not bookish, but to me it doesn't sound weird. That "si" is often used this way ("[to] si asi ani nedovedu ...") and even "bracha" used this way (the 1st case instead of the 5th) is not that unusual. Maybe they are region-specific and you are not used to them, hribecek?
  4. Alexx

    Alexx Well-Known Member

    It is not fine, it is not in standard czech. It is not bookish, it doesn't sound weird, it is not unusual, it is colloquial but not literary language.
  5. hribecek

    hribecek Well-Known Member

    My opinion was based on what I've studied so that's why it was weird for me. (I'm not a native) I didn't know that you can use the 1st case instead of the 5th in colloquial Czech. It's good to know. The si thing too.
    I learned Czech in North Bohemia and I don't think I've ever heard the 1st case used in an addressing situation. How common is it and where?
  6. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member

    In colloquial Czech, it is quite common; even more so in some slang (e.g. military - "vojín Novák, na rajóny!")
  7. Petr_B

    Petr_B Well-Known Member

    Actually, you can even mix the 1st and the 5th case, quite common too: "Jak se máte, pane Novák?" instead of "... pane Nováku?".
    I myself don't fancy this use though, and if I remember correctly, we were told it's a "germanismus" at school and were strongly advised against using it. On the other hand, Slovak language, which is VERY similar to Czech, doesn't even have the 5th case at all. Now when I think about it, they might have told us it's a "slovakismus" at school, not a "germanismus".
  8. hribecek

    hribecek Well-Known Member

    If it's a 'slovakismus' then maybe it's used more in Moravia and is the reason I've never heard it? I'm not familiar with military slang. I enjoy learning these little peculiarities so thanks a lot.
  9. Alexx

    Alexx Well-Known Member

    I would not say "at all". Usually, 5th case = 1st case, but there are some exceptions, for example:

    1st: Boh
    5th: Bože

    Remember Janice in "Friends": "Oh.. my.. GOD" (Ó.. môj.. BOŽE).

    Google found this (by "Súhrn slovenskej gramatiky"):

  10. Petr_B

    Petr_B Well-Known Member

    Ah, thanks for correcting me. Seems I got out of touch with Slovak language even more than I thought.
  11. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Rarely, it could be even used in the literal Czech. The standard addressing for “holka” is “holka”, not “holko”, for example. Or, reading the names from a list, the nominative is also acceptable.

    Ústav pro jazyk český consider it incorrect, but I think it is acceptable as “nominativ jmenovací / přívlastek neshodný” (I’m in doubts what’s the English name for it. Nominative nominative? That’s weird. Nominative of nomination? That’s better, but still…).
    Usualy, I don’t use it, but I can imagine situations where it is even preferable. For example “pane Král” instead of “pane Králi”.
  12. Karel_lerak

    Karel_lerak Well-Known Member

    "pane" with nominative is very common, but this is an exception, after anything else use vokative!

    pane Novák x pane Nováku (both possible, the second literary)

    but never "profesore Novák" or "pane profesore Novák"

    (military slang used nominative after (low) military rank, this was considered very awkward)

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