what does this mean?

Discussion in 'Vocabulary & Translation Help' started by ug, Mar 2, 2007.

  1. ug

    ug New Member

    tos přeložil jak??
  2. Eleshar

    Eleshar Well-Known Member

    tos = to jsi (correctly should be written " tos' " with the apostrophe marking an elision)
    tos přeložil jak? = to jsi přeložil jak? = how did you translate it? (or more correctly regarding the word order "how is that you translated it" - the emphasis is on "jak"/"how")
  3. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    :eek: :eek: What?
    Tos is correct without apostrophe, only without it. (And it is not an elision.)
  4. Eleshar

    Eleshar Well-Known Member

    Elipsis? I tend to mix those two...

    But the apostrophe should be written to signify that something usual was omitted. Like:

    Lekl jsem se > Lek' jsem se

    "Tos' " is not standardised form, it is colloquial, so it is most appropriate to write it with the apostrophe. It is not like combination of "jsi+se":

    *Ty jsi se nemyl > Ty ses nemyl

    (asterisk stands for ungrammatical version)
  5. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Nor elipsis.

    I think the best name for the change of jsi into -s is contraction.

    Elipsis (in grammar) is dropping of unneeded words (she said that she... -> she said she...). (It is also used as a name for the mistake - for the incorrect dropping of a needed word.)

    Elipsis (as literal figure) is dropping of information which is evident in the context.

    Elision is dropping of sounds in order to make the pronunciation easier (the dropping of final vowel sound in French articles, for example; or the dropping of t-sound in tkanička).
    A contraction per se is not an elision.

    The apostrophe is used to mark an omission within standard Czech. It is not used to mark swerving out of standard Czech. That means the dropped l is not marked for the colloquial or vernacular form, but it is marked in poetry when used because of rhythmic need or in order to preserve a rhyme.
    The contraction with the -s is a part of standard Czech, it is correct in the same way as tys, podobnas, krásnas etc. (It's definitely so for the verb být used as verb of meaning. I'm in doubts for the case of auxiliary. Maybe it's colloquial, but then again - no apostrophe is needed.)
  6. Eleshar

    Eleshar Well-Known Member

    I see I really meant elision, but that does not matter. You have to write the apostrophe because there is nothing like "special orthography for colloquial Czech". "Colloquial" is from latin "loqui" - "to speak", so written colloquial Czech still should respect standard orthography. The purpose of the apostrophe is also to indicate that the written form is not the word's base form.
  7. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    Nice sophism :D, of course there is no special orthography for colloquial Czech, but it does not imply you have to write an apostrophe. :roll:
    And sophism is from Greek word for wise, so you can think I wrote you are wise. 8)
    Yes, precisely, and standard orthography says there is an apostrophe only for sounds dropped within standard Czech.

    And in addition, there is no dropped sound in tos, it is complete word from the phonetic view.

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