'Would you like?'

Discussion in 'General Language' started by padraig, Feb 15, 2009.

  1. padraig

    padraig Active Member

    Could someone tell me the difference between;
    Chtěli byste
    Přejete si
    They both appear to mean ‘Would you like?’
  2. fabik317

    fabik317 Well-Known Member

    "Přejete si" is used by TV ad characters, employees of banks, posh shopping centres and other organizations with strict uptightness policy and the like.
    "Chtěli byste" is used by humans.

    "přejete si" literally means "do you wish", "chtěli byste" literally means "would you want", which is normally understood as something along the lines of "do you happen to want"
  3. padraig

    padraig Active Member

    Thank you, Fabik. That’s what I wanted to hear. I don’t expect to visit any posh shopping centres!
  4. Polednikova

    Polednikova Well-Known Member

    This leads onto one of my really basic questions that I'm embarrassed to ask after two years in Prague. How do both the elements change?

    ie is it:

    Chtěl bys...? = Would you like...? (to one male friend)
    Chtěla bys...? = Would you like...? (to one female friend)
    Chtěl byste...? = Would you like...? (to one male formal)
    Chtěla byste...? = Would you like...? (to one female formal)

    Chtěli bychom... = We would like... (mixed M/F)
    Chtěly bychom... = We would like... (several females)
    Chtěli byste...? = Would you would like...? (plural, mixed M/F)
    Chtěly byste....? = Would you like...? (to several females)

    And even more basic:

    Viděl jsi... = You saw (one male friend)
    Viděla jsi... = You saw (female friend)
    Viděl jste... = You saw (one male formal)
    Viděla jste... = You saw (one female formal)

    Viděli jsme... = We saw (mixed)
    Viděly jsme... = We saw (several females)
    Viděli jste...? = Did you see...? (plural, mixed M/F)
    Viděly jste...? = Did you see...? (to several females)

    Sorry that looks so confusing, which is probably why I've never really got it properly!
  5. fabik317

    fabik317 Well-Known Member

    That's perfectly correct, Polednikova.
  6. bibax

    bibax Well-Known Member

    chtěl, chtěla, chtělo, viděl, etc. are participles (adjectives) and express gender and number:

    viděl (m. sg.), viděla (f. sg.), vidělo (n. sg.)
    viděli (m. anim. pl.), viděly (f. & m. inanim. pl.), viděla (n. pl.)

    jsem, jsi, je, jsme, jste, jsou express person and number:

    jsem (1st p. sg.), jsme (1st p. pl.), etc.

    Both elements must agree in number:

    viděl, viděla, vidělo (sing.) + jsem, jsi, je (sing.) - e.g. viděl jsem, vidělo jsi ...
    viděli, viděly, viděla (plur.) + jsme, jste, jsou (plur.) - e.g. viděli jsme, viděly jste ...

    With the exception:

    viděl jste (sing. + plur.) - to one male formal
    viděla jste (sing. + plur.) - to one female formal
    vidělo jste (sing. + plur.) - very rare (maybe in fairy tales)

    in plural there is no difference between formal and informal:

    viděli jste - to several person, formal/informal
    viděly jste - to several women/girls, formal/informal
    viděla jste - to several children
  7. wer

    wer Well-Known Member

    The best you can do is to treat the composite verbal forms as a combination of simple verb (the auxiliary) and adjective (the participle) in nominal (aka short) forms with suffixes as follows:


    (1) zero suffix … masculine subject
    (2) -a … feminine subject
    (3) -o … neuter subject


    (4) -i … subject theoretically with at least one animate masculine member
    (5) -a … subject consisting strictly of plural neuters
    (6) -y … all other plurals

    Compare “I’m/we’re glad” and "I/we wanted":

    (1) já jsem rád - já jsem chtěl
    (2) já jsem ráda - já jsem chtěla
    (3) já jsem rádo - já jsem chtělo
    (4) my jsme rádi - my jsme chtěli
    (5) my jsme ráda - my jsme chtěla
    (6) my jsme rády - my jsme chtěly

    Some examples:

    (1) kluk (an. m. sg.) chtěl
    (1) stát (inan. m. sg.) chtěl
    (2) dívka (f. sg.) chtěla
    (3) zvíře (n. sg.) chtělo

    (4) kluci (an. m. pl.) chtěli
    (6) dívky (f. pl.) chtěly
    (4) kluci (an. m. pl.) a dívky (f. pl.) chtěli
    (6) státy (inam. m. pl.) chtěly

    (5) zvířata (n. pl.) chtěla
    (5) štěňata (n. pl.) a kuřata (n. pl.) chtěla
    (6) štěně (n. sg.) a kuřata (n. pl.) chtěly
    (6) štěně (n. sg.) a kuře (n. sg.) chtěly
    (4) štěně (n. sg.) a kluk (an. m. sg.) chtěli

    Consider also the agreement with personal pronouns:

    (1) on je rád - on chtěl   (he is glad - he wanted)
    (2) ona je ráda - ona chtěla   (she is glad - she wanted)
    (3) ono je rádo - ono chtělo   (it is glad - it wanted)
    (4) oni jsou rádi - oni chtěli   (they are glad - they wanted)
    (5) ona jsou ráda - ona chtěla   (they are glad - they wanted)
    (6) ony jsou rády - ony chtěly   (they are glad - they wanted)
  8. padraig

    padraig Active Member

    Thank you all for your responses. All far too advanced for me, I'm afraid!
    I think I'll stick with Fabik's suggestion and keep it simple.
  9. Ctyri koruny

    Ctyri koruny Well-Known Member

    They are participles AND adjectives!!!??? What do you mean?
  10. bibax

    bibax Well-Known Member

    The adjectives change in gender and number as well as participles, some pronouns (esp. demonstrative) and some numerals. Sometimes they all are called adjectives (in broader sense).

    For example:

    adjectives (in narrow sense): mladý, mladá, mladé, mladí, mladé, mladá (young)
    l-participles: byl, byla, bylo, byli, byly, byla (-)
    passive participles: viděn, viděna, viděno, viděni, viděny, viděna (seen)
    pronouns: takový, taková, takové, takoví, takové, taková (such)
    numerals: jeden, jedna, jedno, jedni, jedny, jedna (one)
    ordinals: pátý, pátá, páté, pátí, páté, pátá (fifth)

    jedna taková mladá žena byla pátá

    All "adjectives" (jedna, taková, mladá, byla, pátá) must agree with the noun (žena) in gender and number.
  11. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Taková stará auta nikdy předtím tady nebyla viděna.
    Takové staré auto(ukázám prstem to žluté) jsem viděl jen jednou.
    Auto, které včera bylo viděno za barákem soucedimi, bylo ukradeno.
  12. kibicz

    kibicz Well-Known Member

  13. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Thanks Kibicz
    behind the neighboring building..za sousedním barákem...I wouldn't have thought of that..but now I know the words :wink:

    my attempt was 'the one seen by the neighbors behind the building'

    auto viděno sousedy za barákem?
    thats probably not a good way to structure a sentence, sounds convoluted in english too.
    maybe better
    Auto, které sousedé viděli včera za barákem, bylo ukradeno.
  14. kibicz

    kibicz Well-Known Member

    Now you got it right, only one little correction in "auto bylo viděno sousedy za barákem? " or "Auto, viděné (včera) sousedy za barákem, (přejelo chodce/bylo ukradeno, atd..)"
  15. Polednikova

    Polednikova Well-Known Member

    Fantastic! Thanks, fabik. Now all I have to do is remember that when I'm trying to say something!
  16. scrimshaw

    scrimshaw Well-Known Member

    Ok, perfect Kibicz
    so now I can confidently say...hopefully

    Auto, které přejelo ubohý chodec včera na hlavní ulici, bylo viděno minulý týden mými soucedy za sousedním barákem.
    Je to stejné auto, viděné Pavlem před policejním stanici v den, kdy jsme slyšeli všechny ty sirény.

    Back to the topic
    It's important that all qualifying words agree in gender with the noun.
  17. Karel_lerak

    Karel_lerak Well-Known Member

    Just remark: We probably would use active instead of passive in such sentences:

    Auto, které včera na hlavní ulici přejelo ubohého chodce, viděli mí sousedé minulý týden za sousedním barákem.
    Je to totéž auto, které viděl Pavel před policejní stanicí v den/toho dne, kdy jsme slyšeli všechny ty sirény.

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